Social Media and RL

[Rostin]

So I kinda want to get to know everyone more (I feel like I will be spending enough time on this game to warrant that + I am obviously such a creep) so would there be any interest in starting a little Facebook group for us all? I realize that is probably a huge "no-no" in MMOs and Forums and stuff but with as few of us as there are and as spread out as we are across the globe I think it would be nice.
So who all has a Facebook profile and would want to start something like that? If it's something you feel is blatantly inappropriate or just wrong in general speak up, because I would honestly have no problem with something like that.

[lisunken]

  I have no face. and what is Facebook?   

[JoolzVern]

Haha I like lisunken. Well if you want to know me,(probably not lol) I personally don't use Facescanbook. So it's nothing personal but no- this is as social as I get and that's probably not good. See I think using Facescanbook makes about as much sense as calling up Nazi's and telling them you're a Jew only right now you don't really realize who's asking if you're jewish and why and they may not even be Nazis and want to kill Jews at this point but here you are thinking that because you're innocent and nice etc. there's no reason to not tell people.

Governments (and Facebook/whomever they sell the data to or even some guy hacking etc.) can use such data to track, bait, manipulate or hunt a group be they MMORPG playing Jews, or in a specific political party or have red hair etc. I think there's a very real threat that all this poses to free society as governments like the USA turn into police states and do things like labeling protesters as 'low level extremists' or putting out training materials(google MIAC report) putting neo-Nazis in the same category as those that support specific third-party political candidates or are simply against abortion. Especially as they develop things like AI tanks or ARGUS drones that can track 1000 targets in a 100sq./mi. area or HELLADS drones that fly in swarms with 150KW lasers which they aim to have ready by 2015.

Popular Science did a article recently about "ORCA" which is a tool they used in Afghanistan and now that it's perfected they've already used it to form a web-diagram that maps of groups of citizens in the US. In Chicago it was the gangs. It looked at arrest records and who got arrested together etc. to map their social network. Now I can't really argue against that aside from it being arrests rather than convictions(later will be more)- I think that's not enough probable cause to warrant them digging any further into your life as you were not convicted(maybe not even charged). Also the fact you are part of a group should have little relevance unless it is a criminal group. But these things always start with such groups and then expand to call it criminal to be black or whatever the easy target group is at the moment.

The issue however and reason I mention it is what they say about the mafia in Italy in the last line: "If the software can map the activities of mafiosi and South Side gangs, it could someday be a push-button means to decode bad intentions all around the world."

Bad intentions? Well this amounts to presuming you guilty until they can't come up with proof that you aren't and this is the paranoid police state mentality that is driving policy. Already the NSA spies on people as far as 'three hops' from their target suspects.

Well in 2004 the 'drug war' was declared a matter of 'national security'. This suggests that anyone in the U.S.A. (you?), who knows anyone(neighbor?), who knows anyone(co-worker?), who knows anyone(high school friend?) who ever got arrested for even a minor drug charge may already be under the gun of this cold war surveillance state with who you call, when, and for how long being monitored and a similar map to 'ORCA' being made of who you know. But it's not any better that this data is often in private hands and companies like Google could form such maps themselves.

To think this could never or would never be used against you(or your kids etc.) I think is very naive. It's bad enough I use email etc. that can be used like that so I don't add Facescanbook or twitter etc. to the list. Imagine if Hitler jumped out of a time machine and googled the nearest Synagogue and latest ways to kill stuff. Well regardless of if they(or their successors) intend to use it on you or any innocent group here in the US they're giving local police things like mine resistant tanks as though they expect mine fields and IEDs and citing veterans and other groups that aren't violent as the threat that justifies it. The stereotyping of some political groups like this is similar to that of racial prejudice decades ago in the U.S. where you are stereotyped as "anti-government" or "extremist" for supporting political reform simply because some lone lunatic also wanted reform and got into a political group etc. before going nuts.

[raphael]

So I kinda want to get to know everyone more (I feel like I will be spending enough time on this game to warrant that + I am obviously such a creep) so would there be any interest in starting a little Facebook group for us all? I realize that is probably a huge "no-no" in MMOs and Forums and stuff but with as few of us as there are and as spread out as we are across the globe I think it would be nice.
So who all has a Facebook profile and would want to start something like that? If it's something you feel is blatantly inappropriate or just wrong in general speak up, because I would honestly have no problem with something like that.

It would be nice because, aside from the reasons that you stated, it might attract new players too. SirEmi should create an official AG group in facebook.

[Dadds]

Gotta giggle at Joolz post. AND THEY CALL ME PARANOID!!! LOL. what a pile of rhetoric. and sadly, you havent got a clue what is really going on. so funny!
You know how i reply to a request if i have a face book page? i say, "nope" lol
No there is a disturbed individual

[Rostin]

Yeah, I didn't want to respond when Joolz posted but that was a little more of a response than I was looking for...  

[JamJulLison]

Joolz can be a bit paranoid. But he seems to still be more trusting then you are.  At least he doesn't see enemies where there are none.  He is right to be suspicious of governments. lol

[JoolzVern]

Only some 40yrs ago "COINTELPRO" was a program that surveilled, infiltrated, discredited, and disrupted domestic political organizations. They ended marriages, careers and even assinated people without the public or the media noticing for some time. They spied on Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for pushing for racial equality, and even senator Frank Church. Church would later go on to expose this tyrannical rogue criminal activity, and push for reform like the "Intelligence Committees" idea (now they're an advocate of the NSA rather than adversary).

Church said in 1975:
“Th[e National Security Agency's]  capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.  [If a dictator ever took over, the N.S.A.] could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back.“

I suppose those of you that think me paranoid must also think Church was 'fearmongering' or just paranoid rather than warning you of a serious threat. I suppose if you acknowledged the threat you would be paranoid of tyranny as you probably know no other way of processing and dealing with that fact and not supporting this stuff with your time, labor etc. Once upon a time people would do like Martin Luther King Jr. and accept the reality and try to oppose it and change it rather than getting paranoid and running from the issue simply because there were people calling him crazy or bad people that would kill him to stop social change.

[Rostin]

Joolz please calm down or I will lock this thread...
You do know that you can choose what to share on sites like Facebook right? You could have it be completely blank and just have a name and use it to contact friends if you so desired. Being cautious is one thing but you are borderline fanatical, which is not a bad thing, it is just irritating for people to be bombarded by another's highly politicized opinion when it is not even asked for. I know you feel very strongly about this, and it is good for our country to have people who do (lord knows it is a serious issue) but I didn't ask for your opinion on the state of American intelligence and domestic spying, I just wanted to know the interest in making a space for Astro Galaxy in social media.
A simple "I do not use Facebook" would have been appreciated
or a "I do not think this would be a good idea because of **** (e.g.: player[______] might be a sexual predator in my neighborhood") would also do.

With all due respect,
-Austin

[JoolzVern]

I'm perfectly calm, and I've no idea why one would think otherwise. 

Rostin you realize that the very associations you make through facebook contacts is information that can potentially be used nefariously(and probably has been in some cases) right? You cannot be cautious and use social media for this reason so I see not using it as that rather than fanatical. I see my encouraging you to do the same as a public service rather than a politicized opinion. A number of NSA whistleblowers agree with me on the danger so I think calling it a policized opinion simply avoids thinking about it logically from a security standpoint.

There's nothing political or fanatical about saying that using 'social media' endangers you and those you associate with on it. We all are in some group, be it racial, religious, political, nationality, etc. and any one of them could be victim of a tyranny that uses this stuff. Freedom isn't political, it's humanitarian. This is about public safety- not politics.

A simple "I do not use Facebook" does not do anything to get through to you that I don't simply not use it, but that I do so because it's a dangerous modern cold-war surveillance platform aimed at the public. So, sorry for the added public service announcement and appeal to reason.

[sargas]

personally, I think in this instance, the statement "I do not use Facebook (EVEN IN ALL CAPS)" is adequate, and in this arena we do not need to know why.



(I mean y'all really don't need me to expound upon my 'conspiracy theories', do you?...)

[JoolzVern]

True Sargas, but I didn't mention any conspiracy theories.

I'm talking about what's happening and has happened historically. COINTELPRO is not a theory and the fact that what Frank Church warned of is happening is fairly well documented now thanks to various NSA whistleblowers.

NSA whistleblower Bill Binney recently stated:
“The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control”. and “The NSA is mass-collecting on everyone, and it’s said to be about terrorism but inside the US it has stopped zero attacks.”

That's not a theory of mine, but an educated, informed insider's view of this sort of mass surveillance to which Facebook is not immune.

[Dadds]

[Rostin you realize that the very associations you make through facebook contacts is information that can potentially be used nefariously(and probably has been in some cases) right? You cannot be cautious and use social media for this reason so I see not using it as that rather than fanatical. I see my encouraging you to do the same as a public service rather than a politicized opinion. A number of NSA whistleblowers agree with me on the danger so I think calling it a policized opinion simply avoids thinking about it logically from a security standpoint.

And yet you post here on an open forum of your opinions lol.
Can i ask if you have any dealings with NSA there Joolz? See i can actually speak from fact about certain aspects of the NSA. and the CSA, and GCHQ (MI5 & 6) and of course our own network.
Did you know that they are not even bothered with your little internal world and workings? You are quite correct in stating they have had zero effect of inside terrorism attacks. Its not their portfolio. go talk to your feds (FBI) or perhaps, though i dont recommend it, CIA lol
Any "NSA whistleblower" is quite likely so unsure what his job actually was to give a good accounting of policy. Probably a disgruntled admin contractor making a name for himself. 30secs of glory.
and @ JJ:

At least he doesn't see enemies where there are none.  He is right to be suspicious of governments. lol

righhhhtt....so...he is correct in saying and seeing his government as an enemy and OK by you but in game when i spot an open posted issue then I am the paranoid one? lol
You seriously need to start engaging what passes for a brain in that head of yours and get a reality check lol

[Dadds]

Oh, and yes, i know who "Bill Binney" is. He was the guy who got upset because his idea of software spyware wasnt adopted by the government, but went with another form of spyware.
No wonder he went crying to the media. Plus probably breached many national security laws. Is he in jail? He should be. If i breached my National Security policy i would be interned for a good 10 years

[jennystack]

I am in.