Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game

General Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gildavinor on October 04, 2018, 05:40:22 AM



Title: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 04, 2018, 05:40:22 AM
Mutual Mining Agreement As debated on and passed by the SPQNR Senate

Whereas there is much expense in time and effort, as well as fuel costs involved in locating a Prospector Treasure(PT) and Whereas conflict and miscommunication have occurred in the past concerning claims on PT deposits We, (SPQNR), offer this Treaty as a guideline for future use in the hopes of avoiding said conflicts and frustrations.

We consider the stealing of a marked claim an egregious offense, equal in severity to the hijacking of a wreck under investigation in the Alien Cluster.
A claim is considered marked by placing an unoccupied level 1 mining module in the first slot on the planet surface.

**When searching for a PT it is incumbent upon the miner to first examine the planet surface and to survey the planet in order to determine whether there is an existing PT there prior to talking to your prospector.**
When a prospector indicates a deposit there are several cases and options that may exist.

Case 1.
There is no other claimed PT there.
Option 1 … Immediately begin mining operations
Option 2 … Offer the Deposit for sale, (see sale of deposits below)

Case 2.
There is an obvious PT already present, but it is unmarked, therefore unclaimed.
Praise your luck … see case 1

Case 3.
There is already a PT there that is being mined by another player/Corp.
Option 1a … Declare your intent to mine the PT you just discovered, (it is your responsibility to contact the present miner and declare this intent)
Option 1b … In the event that there are free slots available on the planet surface, utilize those slots to mine your new PT, leaving the other PT untouched.
Option 2 … Offer the new PT for sale to the current miner. The current miner is under no obligation to buy it. (It is your responsibility to contact the current miner and negotiate a price)

Case 4.
There is a PT already present that is marked for sale.
Option 1 … buy it and mine both it and the new one you just found. (as always it is your responsibility to contact the other owner and negotiate a price)
Option 2 ... Leave it alone and mine only the PT that you just found.
Option 3 … Mark the new PT by placing a marker unit in the next available slot and offer it for sale to the owner of the current PT. Again, the current miner is under no obligation to buy it. (as always, etc. etc.)

Sales of Deposits; If there is a marker unit in the first slot on the planet surface that indicates that the PT deposit there is for sale. Contact the owner to negotiate the price.

Signatories to this agreement are bound by it. Any violations must be addressed through the Corporation leadership.

Non signatories that violate this agreement are subject to reprisals including, but not limited to, destruction of all property present at the point of violation.

Corporation leaders that want their entire Corporation to take part in this agreement may indicate such in a reply to this post. Otherwise players will be added as signatories on an individual basis. I will edit the signatories to this post as they apply.

Signatories:


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 06, 2018, 12:32:41 PM
Will it be possible to see the menu of claimed deposits, so we can enact trade?

Or will we just have to come across a planet and then contact you to see what you are selling.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 06, 2018, 03:01:09 PM
also:

Mutual Mining Agreement As debated on and passed by the SPQNR Senate

Whereas there is much expense in time and effort, as well as fuel costs involved in locating a Prospector Treasure(PT) and Whereas conflict and miscommunication have occurred in the past concerning claims on PT deposits We, (SPQNR), offer this Treaty as a guideline for future use in the hopes of avoiding said conflicts and frustrations.




We consider the stealing of a marked claim an egregious offense, equal in severity to the hijacking of a wreck under investigation in the Alien Cluster.
A claim is considered marked by placing an unoccupied level 1 mining module in the first slot on the planet surface.

Claim must be documented and available upon request.
How do I claim a new deposit if all the slots are occupied?

**When searching for a PT it is incumbent upon the miner to first examine the planet surface and to survey the planet in order to determine whether there is an existing PT there prior to talking to your prospector.**
When a prospector indicates a deposit there are several cases and options that may exist.

?  so, just sit back and feed your prospectors better food than they had on their own and come back later…
No, if your prospector finds a deposit tell whoever is mining there that you claim the one you found and payed for. Log it and ask them how much longer they will be mining.

Case 1.
There is no other claimed PT there.
Option 1 … Immediately begin mining operations
Option 2 … Offer the Deposit for sale, (see sale of deposits below)

Case 2.
There is an obvious PT already present, but it is unmarked, therefore unclaimed.
Praise your luck … see case 1

Case 3.
There is already a PT there that is being mined by another player/Corp.
Option 1a … Declare your intent to mine the PT you just discovered, (it is your responsibility to contact the present miner and declare this intent)
Option 1b … In the event that there are free slots available on the planet surface, utilize those slots to mine your new PT, leaving the other PT untouched.
Option 2 … Offer the new PT for sale to the current miner. The current miner is under no obligation to buy it. (It is your responsibility to contact the current miner and negotiate a price)

Case 4.
There is a PT already present that is marked for sale.
Option 1 … buy it and mine both it and the new one you just found. (as always it is your responsibility to contact the other owner and negotiate a price)
Option 2 ... Leave it alone and mine only the PT that you just found.
Option 3 … Mark the new PT by placing a marker unit in the next available slot and offer it for sale to the owner of the current PT. Again, the current miner is under no obligation to buy it. (as always, etc. etc.)

Sales of Deposits; If there is a marker unit in the first slot on the planet surface that indicates that the PT deposit there is for sale. Contact the owner to negotiate the price.

Request to see all menus of deposits for sale
if it is for sale, advertise it, don't mke me come around and have to ask "How much is that doggy in the window, the one with the waggling tail..."

Signatories to this agreement are bound by it. Any violations must be addressed through the Corporation leadership.

Non signatories that violate this agreement are subject to reprisals including, but not limited to, destruction of all property present at the point of violation.

Clarification required on what  exactly is ‘all property’?

Corporation leaders that want their entire Corporation to take part in this agreement may indicate such in a reply to this post. Otherwise players will be added as signatories on an individual basis. I will edit the signatories to this post as they apply.

Signatories:

More to come, I’m sure


(edit- the red is my response)




Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: NoBrain on October 07, 2018, 03:26:47 AM
also:

Mutual Mining Agreement As debated on and passed by the SPQNR Senate

Whereas there is much expense in time and effort, as well as fuel costs involved in locating a Prospector Treasure(PT) and Whereas conflict and miscommunication have occurred in the past concerning claims on PT deposits We, (SPQNR), offer this Treaty as a guideline for future use in the hopes of avoiding said conflicts and frustrations.




We consider the stealing of a marked claim an egregious offense, equal in severity to the hijacking of a wreck under investigation in the Alien Cluster.
A claim is considered marked by placing an unoccupied level 1 mining module in the first slot on the planet surface.

Claim must be documented and available upon request.
How do I claim a new deposit if all the slots are occupied?

See Case 3

**When searching for a PT it is incumbent upon the miner to first examine the planet surface and to survey the planet in order to determine whether there is an existing PT there prior to talking to your prospector.**
When a prospector indicates a deposit there are several cases and options that may exist.

?  so, just sit back and feed your prospectors better food than they had on their own and come back later…
No, if your prospector finds a deposit tell whoever is mining there that you claim the one you found and payed for. Log it and ask them how much longer they will be mining.

The problem here is that someone is making a claim of the wrong deposit, so there is 2 claim of the same deposit.. (Seen in SPQNR) to prevent this, you need make a surface scan and take a look at the deposits, before the PT is activated.


Case 1.
There is no other claimed PT there.
Option 1 … Immediately begin mining operations
Option 2 … Offer the Deposit for sale, (see sale of deposits below)

Case 2.
There is an obvious PT already present, but it is unmarked, therefore unclaimed.
Praise your luck … see case 1

Case 3.
There is already a PT there that is being mined by another player/Corp.
Option 1a … Declare your intent to mine the PT you just discovered, (it is your responsibility to contact the present miner and declare this intent)
Option 1b … In the event that there are free slots available on the planet surface, utilize those slots to mine your new PT, leaving the other PT untouched.
Option 2 … Offer the new PT for sale to the current miner. The current miner is under no obligation to buy it. (It is your responsibility to contact the current miner and negotiate a price)

Case 4.
There is a PT already present that is marked for sale.
Option 1 … buy it and mine both it and the new one you just found. (as always it is your responsibility to contact the other owner and negotiate a price)
Option 2 ... Leave it alone and mine only the PT that you just found.
Option 3 … Mark the new PT by placing a marker unit in the next available slot and offer it for sale to the owner of the current PT. Again, the current miner is under no obligation to buy it. (as always, etc. etc.)

Sales of Deposits; If there is a marker unit in the first slot on the planet surface that indicates that the PT deposit there is for sale. Contact the owner to negotiate the price.

Request to see all menus of deposits for sale
if it is for sale, advertise it, don't mke me come around and have to ask "How much is that doggy in the window, the one with the waggling tail..."

Look here https://i.postimg.cc/KzFmDwpr/SPQNR-_Deposit_Page.jpg (https://i.postimg.cc/KzFmDwpr/SPQNR-_Deposit_Page.jpg)

Signatories to this agreement are bound by it. Any violations must be addressed through the Corporation leadership.

Non signatories that violate this agreement are subject to reprisals including, but not limited to, destruction of all property present at the point of violation.

Clarification required on what  exactly is ‘all property’?

I'm not a consul member, so I can't clarify this.

Corporation leaders that want their entire Corporation to take part in this agreement may indicate such in a reply to this post. Otherwise players will be added as signatories on an individual basis. I will edit the signatories to this post as they apply.

Signatories:

More to come, I’m sure


(edit- the red is my response)

My response is in green



Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 07, 2018, 11:30:00 AM
Will it be possible to see the menu of claimed deposits, so we can enact trade?

Or will we just have to come across a planet and then contact you to see what you are selling.

Originally the scope of the treaty was to cover those incidences where a prospector led you to a planet on which there was already a PT that was marked as claimed. We mark them as a matter of course for trade within SPQNR and it has caused some confusion.

However, after consulting NoBrain, (the local mining god), he has indicated a willingness to share our "list" with signatories of the agreement.

As to the reprisal clause ... It would mean that any mining modules on the surface, as well as any orbitals protecting them would be sacrificed. This applies only to non-signatories who squatted on a marked claim. This is well within our capability with any but the most powerful players, and the most powerful are the least likely to resort to squatting in the first place.

Signatories would be given the chance to work things out diplomatically with the Corporation's Executive Counsel. 


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 07, 2018, 05:30:14 PM
 :read:

how are you calculating pricing?


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: NoBrain on October 07, 2018, 05:42:42 PM
:read:

how are you calculating pricing?

45+ slots   25% round up
5-44 slots  15% round up
4 slots       10% round up

In SPQNR we use diamonds, but we need to use QP for cross corp


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 07, 2018, 06:33:29 PM
:read:

how are you calculating pricing?

45+ slots   25% round up
5-44 slots  15% round up
4 slots       10% round up

In SPQNR we use diamonds, but we need to use QP for cross corp

round up what?
the deposit value?
the purchase price?

I don't want to nit-pick, but the Empire is this close to voting: :

The Empire has a way to pay in diamonds (the 'Gold Standard' for the galaxy)...
   ...only requires trust...


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 07, 2018, 06:40:02 PM
Percentage is of the deposit value. The easiest way to make a payment between players from different Corps, (without involving the GCA), would be in Quantum Points.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 07, 2018, 08:09:07 PM
Percentage is of the deposit value.

That is my concern. It seems to me that a sliding fee based upon the size of the planet is not acceptable.
Why would I pay more for the same amount of Gold found on a large site instead of a small site? I would prefer a MSRP of 10% of the deposit value + the cost for the map (yeah, I know. more bookkeeping). That will give us the ability to have sales once in a while.

 The easiest way to make a payment between players from different Corps, (without involving the GCA), would be in Quantum Points.

The Empire has a way to trade without involving the GCA and will pay in diamonds for services rendered and accept diamonds in payment for services rendered. The only requirement is trust.



Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 07, 2018, 08:58:51 PM
Concerning the sliding fee. I believe the idea stems from the speed at which the resource can be harvested, but as I've said before, I'm just a noob and there is a lot I don't understand. I would think/hope that this could be negotiable.

As for payment in diamonds, and trust issues, I have never seen any evidence that you, specifically, could not be trusted. I can't say that for everyone in other Corps, nor do I speak for everyone in my Corp. This again should be a non issue in my opinion, at least when dealing with EOS.

I am in the unique position of being one of the newest members of the game, newest member of my Corp, and being elected into an office on the executive counsel. And they allow me to author this agreement ... What were they thinking?


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 07, 2018, 09:21:55 PM
They know talent when they see it.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 07, 2018, 09:31:36 PM
You are either very kind or you're as daft as they are, (I shouldn't discount the possibility that both are true).  :5:


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Matamaure001 on October 07, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
QP have 2 prices: on price if you buy it; on price when you sell it. I think this fact disqualify QP as payment.

Like sargas proposed, I am also in favor of diamonds as payment.

As for the difference in price based on the size of the planet, I can see the logic behind it. The only thing is: I do not know if I agree with it. (I know that I would not mine a size 4 planet, not worth it for me)

(I edited it like it is common practice in our corp (I do not know why?))


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Raptor on October 07, 2018, 11:21:34 PM
QP have 2 prices: on price if you buy it; on price when you sell it. I think this fact disqualify QP as payment.

Like sargas proposed, I am also in favor of diamonds as payment.

As for the difference in price based on the size of the planet, I can see the logic behind it. The only thing is: I do not know if I agree with it. (I know that I would not mine a size 4 planet, not worth it for me)

(I edited it like it is common practice in our corp (I do not know why?))


Fair point, on agreeing to the pricing. We've had one or two guys who offered a different pricing system (which was also considered fair, but much more work). I'm sure people who sign up to this agreement for, say, an x% flatrate, would also be welcomed with open arms.

As for the QP, we always calculate them as worth $1M. Yes, they sell for only $50K, but surely no one does THAT? :o

Besides, diamonds, like all mats, have a different sale/purchase prices, too. When used as a currency, we take the lower value of $1750/m3, the Earth sale price (like the Empire, we prefer not to do business with Sol stations though ;) )


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 08, 2018, 08:32:48 AM
how will you handle a customer who cannot transfer QP?


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 08, 2018, 01:06:17 PM
how will you handle a customer who cannot transfer QP?
Do you mean a customer without VIP status? If they are a member of a Corp they could do it through a proxy. If they are a Lone Wolf without VIP status they probably probably wouldn't be a serious enough miner to become a signatory to this agreement in the first place. If you mean they don't have enough QP to make the purchase, and they can't afford to buy them, then they wouldn't be buying a PT to begin with.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 08, 2018, 03:05:19 PM
don't you still have to be a donor of a minimum $5.00 USD to be able transfer QP (as well as have VIP status)?

and on an unrelated topic:
Who do I talk to over there in NewRome about my plans regarding trade of commodities?



edit, because y'all seem to expect it every so often...

...I'm just gonna sing a little song here:

....
ahem,uhh, ahem...

..."I want a hippopotamus for Christmas,
only a hippopotamus will do
Don't want a doll
No dinky tinker toy
I want a hippopotamus to play with and enjoy
..."


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 08, 2018, 05:50:18 PM
I have never spent any real world money and I have had no problem spending QP on VIP status or anything else. I have never tried transferring to another player, but from what I read all you need is VIP status. I just trade AP for QP, and sell the occasional ADR.

NoBrain is the keeper of all things mine related, Marcus is our banker, but StarGazer and Kcin Regnad are our head honchos. They have final say. Either of them would do, but, (in my opinion), Kcin is the more decisive of the two.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2018, 06:17:55 PM
And Gildavinor is in my old role as the administrative biatch to the Consuls :D


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2018, 06:21:39 PM
Oh, and being a Constitutionalist, I must insist the Senate has the final say  :12:


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on October 08, 2018, 08:36:05 PM
aha you are sending me to another room.

...I can either sit here in the waiting room,
or I can wait here in the sitting room...

I'll let Nick know what Rocky Rococo has to say then, thanks.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on October 08, 2018, 10:45:16 PM
And Gildavinor is in my old role as the administrative biatch to the Consuls :D
I prefer "whipping boy". :P


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on November 02, 2019, 03:41:18 AM
This mining policy, which SPQNR has adopted, and which has been widely accepted by most of the top Corps, has experienced a few recent hick-ups,
I'm bumping this up so that it can be easily found, read, and (hopefully) understood by a few minor Corps that have taken exception to it.

In other news, SPQNR has recently seen fit to elevate me to 2nd Consul. (really ... what were they thinking?)


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: SteveCrab on May 21, 2020, 06:35:32 AM
Omicron Theta Foundation agrees to the terms of the Mutual Mining Agreement.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on September 20, 2020, 01:05:02 PM
I wanted to bump this up as it is becoming relevant again. This still reflects SPQNR policy. Anyone poaching marked deposits will be dealt with accordingly.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Legion on November 30, 2020, 09:11:25 AM
K noob here with no clue what a PT is yet but does this legalese mumbo jumbo apply to normal mining as well? Because I've put miners down in the first spot on planets and still got cleared out.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on November 30, 2020, 09:55:46 AM
PT is shorthand for 'Prospector Treasure' which is one of four types of mission ( fuel, meds, survivors, and PT)

this mining agreement only affects PT and not regular mining.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Antilak on March 13, 2021, 08:02:32 PM
I'm not a fan of the schemes used to "protect" prospector sites. My reason is if I come across a prospector site and see one miner there, I think I remember it doesn't even show what the miner is mining. How're you to know the miner isn't just an old leftover miner from an older site or from ancient times? Second of all, it's hard to reach most players, since they can be gone for months or years. Another thing is small planets only have a couple slots. If I find another site on the same planet, that's 1 less slot for me to use. Lastly, not everyone will know of the policy. I know I've left behind many prospector sites because they weren't worth the effort.

I'd rather we can purchase ownership to the site for a small charge, maybe lorewise dropping a beacon to the site which doesn't take a slot, but this would require in-game development to support it. Really it just means adding a ownership attribute to deposits.

Mostly I think the alien sectors should have good mining sites also. It's not right to stuff mining into the (-4,-4,+4,+4) sol sectors.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on March 14, 2021, 06:33:37 PM
It's all moot at this point. Most marked sites are owned by LEOP. If you mine one without buying it first we will just take it back and put you on our KOS list. We are no longer fettered by senatorial procedures as we were when we were in SPQNR.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Raptor on March 15, 2021, 12:35:32 AM
This


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Gildavinor on May 23, 2021, 05:47:57 PM
By way of unnecessary warning, (just because I'm feeling generous), I no longer agree to anything within the agreement. I authored it at a time when the Corporation I was in was seeking to civilize the game. As Master of LOEP that is no longer my goal. If you don't protect your mining operation I will rob you blind without remorse.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on July 11, 2021, 09:40:53 AM
we may need to review the treaty as it has fallen apart.

1.)     
Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2021, 06:33:37 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
It's all moot at this point. Most marked sites are owned by LEOP. If you mine one without buying it first we will just take it back and put you on our KOS list. We are no longer fettered by senatorial procedures as we were when we were in SPQNR.

2.) two months later we get this:
Posted on: May 23, 2021, 05:47:57 PMPosted by: Gildavinor
Insert Quote
By way of unnecessary warning, (just because I'm feeling generous), I no longer agree to anything within the agreement. I authored it at a time when the Corporation I was in was seeking to civilize the game. As Master of LOEP that is no longer my goal. If you don't protect your mining operation I will rob you blind without remorse.


So, the treaty is  broken and must be reworked.



Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: NoBrain on July 11, 2021, 10:18:28 AM
The treaty is broken.
I just don't want to attack EOS or old NAP corps, but if EOS or old NAP corps members don't respect my markers.
I will defend them instad.


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on July 11, 2021, 10:45:27 AM
the Empire is voting even as we speak. I expect the voting to be finalized within a week.
(gotta give the citizens in the territories or badlands the proper time to cast their ballot)


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: Raptor on July 11, 2021, 11:47:18 AM
In LOEP, we have respected SPQNR-era treaties, but if that's the case, then I won't wait for the results of any external vote. I will now go full Teddy KGB mode and do whatever I please, whenever the f*ck I please.  :12:


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on July 12, 2021, 08:42:13 AM
By way of unnecessary warning, (just because I'm feeling generous), I no longer agree to anything within the agreement. I authored it at a time when the Corporation I was in was seeking to civilize the game. As Master of LOEP that is no longer my goal. If you don't protect your mining operation I will rob you blind without remorse.

LOEP has stated that it does not wish to honor the accords.

The Empire is sad to state that the deposit is in danger of nova. Do you plan on saving your investment? If so, we can reach an agreement, if no ...


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: NoBrain on July 12, 2021, 09:45:33 AM
By way of unnecessary warning, (just because I'm feeling generous), I no longer agree to anything within the agreement. I authored it at a time when the Corporation I was in was seeking to civilize the game. As Master of LOEP that is no longer my goal. If you don't protect your mining operation I will rob you blind without remorse.

LOEP has stated that it does not wish to honor the accords.

The Empire is sad to state that the deposit is in danger of nova. Do you plan on saving your investment? If so, we can reach an agreement, if no ...
It will be stabile on next update by my ship


Title: Re: Mutual Mining Agreement
Post by: sargas on July 12, 2021, 01:24:12 PM
first, you are a friend.
second, the system is in dispute
third, it needs stabilizing; therefore:

MOSQUITO is there stabilizing the system as well.