Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game

I think it  would be cool to have something like a "3D Printer Station" that will manufacture any  modules you need provided you have the plans(tech level). To make it 'mesh' with the current system I would suggest that it manufacture modules (??)% faster/slower than your own bays, depending on how much you're willing to pay. So, if you want a module fast and have the money you can pay extra to have it printed for you, and if you want to save money and are patient, you can get a module at a discount compared to if you bought materials and did it yourself. If you a re  up to doing the extra coding you could also maybe have an option to make some modules like armor faster and cheaper, but they are crap, and disintegrate after 15 or 30 days or something.

Maybe everybody would just get the discount, but I imagine a significant number of us need or want it faster so I think it may balance out.

I think this would better reflect reality. As my father always says about repairs maany services and stuff:

"You can have it three ways; good, fast, and cheap. But you can only pick two at a time."

Eh.. Idk about this one. I mean sure time is money so if you have to wait longer then in a way you are still paying the same amount but something like this could be hard to balance out. Emi is already planning on letting us create our own manufacturing stations at some point and I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the wealthy and powerful folks on here would throw some of us lower level players a bone now and then giving us a low level module for a discount.

As for having a module get done faster, I think the Mechanical Officer provides a 50% reduction in manufacturing/upgrade time and that is fair enough. I know some people have suggested upgraded officers though I haven't read those threads so I don't know what everyone else thought about them but one idea I thought of was just being able to hire more than one officer to help with the same cost but diminishing returns. For example a 2nd Mechanical Officer would only get half the bonus being 25% and it wouldn't stack linearly with the previous bonus, so a 50% and 25% wouldn't be 75% total but rather the 50% comes out first and then it takes out 25% of what time is left for a total bonus of 62.5% That being said, I don't think being able to hire as many officers as you want would be a good idea, those that are rich could essentially spend a couple hundread QP and have their super powerful modules done nearly instantly.

Anyways, the game isn't supposed to be super easy, nor is anything supposed to be very fast, that is part of the realism to this game. While certainly what you have said makes sense in reality Joolz, in order to keep a game balanced sometimes you have to disregard certain parts of reality and create your own rules in a sense. The main problems I see with it is that it could make the game too easy and later on at the higher levels it could quickly become very overpowered when we have tons of money to spend and are mostly looking for ways to save time.

 I could see that. You make some good points.  I didn't know Manufacturing stations were coming though. The multi-officer thing is interesting too.

But you could cap it at one module a day or something maybe to limit the big guys. Maybe even a total ship power cap, where you can only do this if you have under 5mil ship power or something.

I guess I just feel like there should be  some ability to customise/vary the time/cost of manufacturing rather than it being uniform accross the board,  always taking 3hrs per level.

Manufacturing time is a great limitation when you have high level techs. It also maintain the balance of the game.

To improve manufacturing time, we could have a new module called something like a "Manufacturing accelerator". It could improve a little the manufacturing speed and as we upgrade it to better MK levels, it could become more and more efficient. We could also have more than one on our manufacturing ship.

Hmm, that is in interesting thought. We already have Hanger bays for docking ships we could make an Advanced Manufacturing Bay and put modules inside it to upgrade them a bit faster than the standard Manufacturing Bay, as long as there is a reasonable limit to the number of modules you can create/upgrade in them at one time and in order to get a really good decrease in manufacturing time you had to spend a fair amount of time to research and then upgrade the module I think that would be more in tune to the spirit of the game and easier to balance overall.

Those  are good ideas.

How about we make an "upgrade  module" that boosts the manufacturing speed a bit? Maybe have it capped at a certain %/level to keep people from being able to build modules instantly. Or how about an upgrade module that speeds it up, and a... I don't know "automated" or just advanced manufacturing module that boosts efficiency- lowering the amount of materials required?

Again, there would need to be limits to keep it from being too unbalanced, but that souds pretty cool.

A kind of "manufaturing module" would really be great. So it could speed up a manufacturing task by a few percent. But there could be a conflict of interests there: speeding up manufacturing CAN already be done using QPs. So, I don't know the amount of bought QP, but such module could maybe lower the income of the game.

That is true in a sense, however since QP can also be bought with solars there is technically no need to even buy QP with real money. As long as the module doesn't lower the time required to build/upgrade something by a lot then I don't think it will be a major issue. Those that want to buy QP with real money and use it to make stuff happen instantly will still do that I'm sure.

Then  it's settled  :))

Maybe in your mind, in the end it's completely up to SirEmi lol

shhh!! Don't tell him that!

Manufacturing modules is already easy the way it is now (even for newbies), though i wouldn't mind any update to make it even easier/faster. :)

I would rather there be a way for when your at Earth to automaticly buy what you need from Earth for an upgrade when you go to click your upgrade. Now that would be a real time saver.

Meaning you would just skip the process of buying resources altogether and starting an upgrade to a module would just automatically take the amount of money required for those resources out of your money? I guess that would save some time for the higher level modules certainly, not to mention some hassle when you need a couple thousand m3 of space for the resources to do an upgrade. Maybe emi could add that feature to VIP, I think that makes a good deal of sense.

I would even be content if they still required you to have enough space in your cargo bay to do it. It would just be a nice time saver yet offers no real advantages.

Yes it does offer real advantage. time saver lol. time is money.
Instead of creating yet another module to make stuff build faster, or create senior officers to increase percentages more, or other wild ideas in how to win a game faster, just ask Sir Emi for a "i win the game card"
Sheesh, all the top players are top players for putting in the time, learning the game, learning how to utilize their time and actions to build and grow as fast or faster than the next person. Why then should it suddenly become easier for others to achieve the same results?

As matamure points toward, the higher our tech levels get, the more of a limiter it puts on us to build it. the science required to get 1 extra mark can be in the millions or tens of millions, and the time factor never alters per mark to build. If you want to invent a "quickie fix" that builds stuff fast, then it becomes available to us top players also, which means we will speed up the widening of the gap from newer players to old. At our levels, money is very unimportant and easy to earn. You dont want a QP fed machine to build a mark M or higher module, or a replicator

We are getting someplace with a science already in place called "Reverse engineering" All that needs to be done is to allow reverse engineering for all modules, not just the illegal ones, with the same restraint on building or reverse engineering 2 modules currently in place.

The other thing that we would hope comes to place is the ability to trade modules on a commodity market, which i suspect is also being reviewed, based on the last game upgrade we received.

If you want to build quick, the third option is join an advanced corp who doesnt mind sharing some of its tech with members, to gain an immediate boost and support to your character.

There is no need to build yet more "gadgets" to do what already is possible. Rapid advances and personal development is simple. Put some time in to the game, meet some senior players and learn from their learning and mistakes.

I agree with most of that but I guess I just have two major points where I disagree a bit.

1. Sure it could make the gap between the newer developing players and the older and well established players even bigger than it is now, but it could also allow for faster development where a smart player could perhaps gain ground faster on those older players. The game itself is still growing and changing so who is to say it couldn't help players out when combined with other future developments that those older players also have to navigate and learn at the same time?

2. There are at least 2,000 people that have registered to play this game... how many of those people actually play again? I think a significant factor with regards to the number of players that started and subsiquently left is how long things take to get done. Now don't get me wrong, I think some things like traveling and what not are more or less fine the way they are. I don't have to even ask for a show of hands as to how many people have said they think combat timers need to be adjusted so things don't take forever. While I don't think it is nearly as bad as combat timers there are times when I think to myself "why did I even bother to research that module to such a high level? I'm never going to make a module that takes that long to build." I think a good part of it would be about balancing, something like this would have to be balanced well lest it be overpowered and highly abusable or be so insignificant (I'm looking at you combat drives) that it might as well not even be in the game.

I have other ideas as to how to make this work, and you yourself Dadds have just given me another idea by pointing out how someone at your level really feels that it isn't necessary at all. I feel like it could seriously help my second point and give us more players to enjoy interacting with but perhaps I should make a poll about build times for new players to express their opinions on the matter before I go putting all my eggs in that basket for this friendly debate lol.

I hate to point out and acknowledge anything that Raphael has done, but if you look at his rise to infamy, he is probably the fastest growth achiever in the game currently. Doesnt make him the best or strongest player by any means, but he has spotted a weakness in the game to exploit to his own benefit to build up a strong power base. So the game already does allow for fast development, if you want to follow the "Raphael model" He puts in a lot of game time, uses the easiest methods and researches the cheapest science to achieve power fast.
I dont recommend it of course, because all you end up with is a bunch of comm mission ships with no imagination and no real benefit vs another player.

To point number 2.

Chances are the reason why most people have left (which includes some of my own corp members) is because, when you do get up in advanced levels, there is very little to do to entertain most people. If you add a peace treaty to that, so there is no PvP intrigue, the game just becomes a bit of a drag. We are still waiting on the upgrades for blackholes etc which has been promised for so long now its no longer funny.  We were conducting supernova experiments while still at war with PMI. That was a very long time ago in game time lol. I am still doing my bit to ensure every system i meet is destabilised for when the big bang is introduced. That concept has been in the game for a very long time and still it hasnt come about. With the resources depleting, even mining is becoming boring and people are finding more interesting ways to spend their times, in other games i suspect.

With ref to building times: I have just started several module builds on my factory ships which wont be complete for over 74hrs. That is the time frame i like to work in. i could have set that to be several days or weeks even, just to build a module. That time doesnt bother me so much, because i have enough ships and modules to go about business while those surplus modules get built. VIP and officers help with the build time, and i fully endorse them as essentials to the game if you want to play for keeps. Reasonably priced also, as you can buy QP from solar.

It is already quite easy to grow fast, if you pick a particular model and stick to it. I chose mining and removed myself from all the politics and issues surrounding Sol early on, and now run a powerful corporation. Finding the right people to be a part of the corp was my secret.
Others choose raiding to get their early break on others.
Some learn how to exploit comm missions early on and build their ships accordingly to maximize profit and minimize cost.
Some go mad on early research and get high tech quickly in certain areas.

All of these models work and achieve results at different levels

And then some just play it safe and run an intra-stellar ferry service and usually get nowhere slowly.

Certainly I can see your point about not having anything to do at the higher levels of modules and research, however I have to wonder how many people quit long before they even get to that point because of how long things take. Now don't get me wrong, I personally like a grind it out kind of game where it takes awhile to get some things done, I find more satisfaction in games like that. I don't personally think the build times are horrible, they are... bearable though I wouldn't call them good either.

It isn't the build times that bother new players.  It is the travel times.  I remember how bad they were in my early days.  Many people lack the patience needed to move ahead in the game.  Many players quit during the Venus step.  Just look at venus and see for youself all the inactives there.  I used to love hitting inactives there because they would still have their diamonds on board and at times drop them.

Hmm, I suppose I could agree with that on some level, I remember wasting my early QP's on speeding up travel time because of how long it was. I guess I mostly just felt like travel times get better as you upgrade your engines, where as module building/upgrading times get progressively longer and longer though at least it's a linear increase in time rather than exponetial. Thank god for that because if build/upgrade times were exponetial that would just be insanely ridiculous.

Nothing is worse then the combat times which get so high it is rediculas. I can forgive the travel and even the build.  I can see realisticly why that stuff may be like it is. But not the battle.

I agree certainly that build times aren't exactly a high priority, the way combat works doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Actually Dadds, to thhe point on widening the gap - the way I originally envisioned it was there would be a limit as to the number of modules you could have manufactured fast/cheap. So maybe you can only do one per day or one at a time or something- that limitation is a separate issue though.

Anyway, I think this sort of thing would have very little effect on you guys because even if you make your mk 200 viper module or whatever in even half the time, you're only getting the boost for that one. Yes, you will grow faster for certain just because you get an odd module built faster; but I think you guys already build and grow so fast that this benefit would be relatively miniscule.

On the other hand if you're starting out and you want to expand caargo space faster, then instead of having to wait six hours to build a mk2 cargo module you could make it in the manufacturing module/station for 3hrs  Or if you are low on funds you could make it cheaper but take 12hrs and use the other cash to buy fuel. I think that would make a big difference.

Of course I didn't necessarily envision the bonus to be half but you get the idea.

I obviously agree that the other timers are also very high but I think this is a workable solution for this one. I guess my issue is that if I want to go faster I can put on another engine and there are reasonable limitations/handicaps(fuel) limits on the benefit of doing so. If I have a really high attack timer and high odds, I can take some crew off some lasers or something, lower the odds a bit, and the timer.

But while I can get an engineer(as with navigation), and use QP to speed it up(as with navigation), I can't do anything else to adjust this at all. I would like to be able to do so for at least like 15-20%.

Perhaps the factory ship optimization should do more then just add extra manufacturing bays. With what it cost perhaps it could also increase the production speed it takes to build modules on it.

That would make sense in a way, though I don't think that would really help newer players like Joolz wants since it would be pretty expensive.

It would if they are part of a corperation. The only ones who can usually afford such a huge cost is either a corp with a good income cause of taxes or someone on Mata's level.  PMI has a corp factory ship. While it is usually used by our bigger people.  Our lower ranking people are welcome to use it as well.  BTW low level build times aren't really bad at all. I never had an issue with build times when I was lower ranked.

yeah well i am listening to all your discussions and thoughts, but in reality it wasnt long ago that i was a new player anyway. i think i have just undergone my 2nd Christmas in the game, starting late in a previous year gone by, so i have been playing the game now for just over a year and still recall the pain of trying to build a new character. From my memory of what i found frustrating at first was the long travel times and the lack of income to do anything with the science i was developing.  Also the lack of ship and module space. This was before there were extra types of comm missions and stuff (nests etc) to help out. I grabbed VIP relatively early, as well as officers to shorten all gaming timers. Early on in the game i wasnt even that bothered with building upgrades because the cost of building new vs the +25% per upgrade of extra benefit it gave me, meant it was better for me to build small modules and lots of them, but buy a big ship or 3.
It wasnt until I became a top 20 player that i needed to start looking at upgrading modules to keep my power levels increasing in line with the top players, when ship licenses suddenly became too expensive to justify buying more.
Perhaps because the model i focused on was expansionist and explorer, build times were of no or little consequence for me initially. Once i had my power base it was just a matter then of upgrading modules to keep in touch with my science. By this time, i had plenty to do while waiting for the builds (remember, this is also going back when there were no ship optimizations in game).
Even now at my level, the most limiting factor to building is the module costs, not so much the time it takes to build. Some of my big modules are worth $10's or even $100's of millions to build if i want to build more than one of them, which takes time and organisation to earn (back on combat timers yuk). the build time for me is probably the most bearable because at the end of the day it is only a linear counter.
We at IMG also have a corp factory ship for all to build on. For those who wish to purchase the materials to build a module, we can provide our top scientists to build top modules for them. I guess in this scenario then the limiting factor would be build timers, since all the other hard work has already been accomplished with senior science research, and the income obtained to buy materials.

I hear what you are saying... perhaps a better way to fix some of these issues would be to work it from a different angle. I had another idea as far as helping build times for noobs just starting out but perhaps there would be another way to actually go about that. I will organize my thoughts on that matter and post the idea in a different topic as it isn't really so much about manufacturing as it is about the entire start of the game in general.

The easiest way for a player to advance quickly is to join an existing developing and established corp at the end of the day. Once they get a "leg up" most corps would be ok with it i guess if they felt they needed to move on to do their own thing as a leader of a corporation. Most would prefer they stay, of course and become a productive member of the team, but that is the risks corp captains take when taking on a new recruit.