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You locked your post before I had a chance to reply.  Like right before.  Here is what I have to say


I can't speak for my members but right now you are still on my KOS list.  Sorry Jake but after alll you did to support Dadds I can't just give you a get out of jail free card.  When the war broke out I tried to explain to you what really happened. I even encouraged you to look at the forums. But you continued to support Dadds and believe he told you.  Everyone else could see how he had lost it but you continued to support him and helped him to wage war.  Not even the "I was just obeying orders" excuse will fly with me. I gave you a chance to get out of there.  Now only that Raph has hit you hard do you tuck your tail in between your legs and try to get out of there.  By siding with Dadds and even refusing to look into what was really going on and seeing reason, you have shown yourself to me to be almost as bad as him. Even after when it seemed like Dadds was barely even active you continued on the war attacking TGE and other corporations Dadds had declared war on.  With Dadds pretty much gone surely you saw you were in it alone and if you really didn't want the fighting you would have went ahead and left sooner.  But you didn't. You kept up the war yourself.   You have a long way going to ever regain my trust.  Somehow I doubt that is ever going to happen.

Emperor. Jake is in talks with SPQNR at the moment. He received his punishment for whatever happened in the past. You've had a considerable amount of time to settle the bill. If the most powerful player in the galaxy can show mercy, perhaps you can too.

At any rate, if he does become a Senator of New Rome, the Republic asks you to refrain from attacking him.

I am aware he joined SPQNR now and that we can't touch him now. But he received punishment from raph and the reason for their war was different then their own. Theirs was a conflict between Dadds and Raph that Jake had been caught up in for a long time.  The reason for our war with IMG is because Dadds betrayed TGE and ITO just over a matter of opinion.  Jake went along with Dadds on this one so I consider him just as guilty of betraying us as Dadds. Especially considering officially IMG and ITO was allies. This isn't just about me and my corp, it is about ITO as well.  I know Joolz feels much the same way about this as I do.   Hell most of the attempted assaults in this war have been done by Jake and not Dadds.  Raph's punishment to him is a totally different matter then what we want.   Now I am not sure if Joolz would agree to this or not but there is something i'd like from Jake.


Jake here is the deal. As you know we can't touch you right now. You are wanting to prove you have changed your ways. Am I correct? If your really sorry then  I'd like a formal apology on here in the announcements section from you to both TGE and ITO.   Yes Dadds was the one who snapped and declared war. But you went along with the decision. By doing so you were  betraying allies of TGE and ITO as well.  Whether Joolz will accept your apology I am not sure. But it is worth a try. I on the other hand will if your willing to do it.  If your wondering why I am suggesting ITO despite it not being my corp, the matter is simple. Fact is I try to look after Joolz and the rest of ITO. They are my friends.  Like Rostin, I try to look after my friends.  I feel at the very least after all that has happened that they deserve an apology. Just as we do. But they deserve it more because they were fellow members of the GC alongside IMG when they were betrayed.

¹a war that was supported and sanctioned by PMI. (you were even on Dadds side with that one)

²so was I until you decided I was taking too long with my investigation regarding that one specific topic.

³ibid.

⁴the 'GC' is a dead entity (as I have been told by you on numerous occasions) and there is no need to bring it into these deliberations, unless you want all 'GC decisions' to go under the 'magnifying-glass'?

But it was never personal between us and Raph.  Yes we supported it. But as you recall it it caused a lot of friction among us in PMI too.  I was merely pointing out the differences of why they were at war and why we are at war with IMG now.  The circumstances that caused it are much different.


From my point of view it looked like you were just trying to delay things and put them on hold. I felt like nothing was getting done and it even looked like to me you supported what happened.  I felt betrayed and decided to do something to get things moving forward then sit at a standstill.  I only took out 1 of your stations when I could have taken out 3-4 in that time period.  It was because of our past friendship that I didn't.  I was in the wrong there though and I did pay you compensation and I did get some of the marines back. So I consider that matter closed. All I want with you is to repair our damaged friendship and to move forward.




It is dead because of the actions of Dadds.  It was because of his betrayal of ITO just after he decided to turn on TGE.  All over a matter of opinion. Though to us it looks like he was just looking for an excuse to go to war.  Jake was informed of all this but bought into everything Dadds was telling him.  He supported Dadds in his war against TGE and ITO. He even carried out attack attempts at us.  An apology is a small thing to ask for considering all this.  I only brought up the GC because it existed up until the point that the betrayal occurred. The death of the GC does have some relevance here because it proves ITO and IMG were officially allies until that point.

Yes, the trust issue with Jake/Nero would be less a concern if he were to publicly denounce Dadds' war as frivolous and unreasonable/unjust and say that he personally condemns his own actions in support of it as unjust.

Regardless, the fact that he joined SPQNR (making him protected under United Corporations' charter from UC corp attacks) convinced me/ITO to reserve the right to retaliatory strike(s) against Jake/Nero if and when we get the chance. Jake/Nero has agreed not to flee in that event. He has also apologized for the losses(only) incurred from his participation in IMG's war.

Because of this ITO will remain officially outside the United Corporations(signature removed from the charter) until it's charter is amended to allow such 'grandfathered' retaliatory strikes, or we decide we're 'square' with Jake/Nero etc..

However, my/our commitment to the UC charter agreements and their intended spirit of co-operation and non-aggression will otherwise remain firm. I want to re-assure the UC corporations that we will not interfere in operations of UC corps and uphold our agreements other than retaliation against Jake/Nero.

It is my belief that this is the most honorable thing to do to avoid letting injustice stand without breaking our word or eroding the integrity of the UC and it's agreements.

Yes, he locked it right away. LOL Anyway, Nero, thanks for letting me know. I will continue targeting IMG. :)

Newer players like Rostin will never know the extent of Dadds' and Jake's "damage" to other corps, simply because they weren't there since the beginning, and not everything is recorded in the forum. I, too, wanted a formal apology from Nero but unexpected lobbying from a couple of my former SSS members made me very slightly adjust my demands. At least Nero said that he won't attack SSS anymore. Now regarding other corps, I side with TGE and ITO on this one. Nero should at least post something about them. After all, he did more attacks that Dadds ever did. LOL

You guys will have to forgive a newbie like me for asking stupid questions, but I have read a lot of the forums... and they are just FULL of hostility towards a certain Raphael. I know that Joolz has a forum post titled "ITO Stance @ Raph," the first sentence of which reads "Grand Admiral "Fancy-Pants" Raphael can choke on his childish nonsense." You can kind of guess the rest from there. There was a lot of that going around for a long time, and then it all stops. Is it because Raph received sufficient "justice" for his attacks on ITO? Or is it because he obliterated all comers, drove Jazzbob and Dadds from the game as far as I can tell, and generally proved that opposing him was a recipe for destruction?

And yet, there's all this vitriol against Jake... which has only suddenly emerged now that he has left IMG and joined SPQNR.

Joolz: Is it really "justice" for Jake's attacks that are the heart of this matter? Are you telling me that Jake did more damage to ITO than Raph did? Of course not. Are you telling me that ITO successfully had retribution against Raph? Of course not. You could never touch Raph, so conveniently this talk of "justice" and "pirates" evaporates. Jake tried to pay you reparations and you sent the money back.

Jake is now Nero, he has come to SPQNR looking for a clean start. Do the right thing here and put your conflict with Jake to rest, please. There is no more Jake, there is only Nero, a miner... and a Senator of New Rome.

The stuff when we was against Raph is from the days of the now dead GC.  Early on Dadds had issues with Raph when he was on the rise.  He attacked anyone he felt like attacking and began to looking like a terrorist. After much discussion the GC declared Raph an outlaw. ITO was one of the later members to join the GC prior to it dieing.   These days while some of us may not like Raph much, we don't got any personal issues with him. Hell the only one that ever did was Dadds. 

As for Jake/Nero.  A name change doesn't mean his past changes. His past is his past and it will always remain.  I will be pming Jake as soon as SirEmi unblocks him for me.  I plan on discussing this with Jake in the game itself since he doesn't seem to be coming on here.  But fact is name change or not, he needs to be held accountable for his actions.  A public apology is a small thing to ask for considering everything that has happened.

That's mostly (not all) true but the only difference with me and Jake is that I never asked to left alone. They can all attack me again, and the war will resume. But they don't want that, and I feel that I have nothing more to prove so everyone might as well drop it.. But in Jake's case, he asked to be left alone, and he wants peace. So if he was the one who asked for it in the first place, it's really up to his enemies if they will accept it or not. :)

Raph, you didn't need to ask to be left alone, because you're strong enough to obliterate them. There is lots of talk of justice... JJL says "His past is his past and it will always remain," and "he needs to be held accountable for his actions," as if those things are moral principles, but the fact that he and Joolz do not apply them to you means they're just scared of you. They're not making an ethical stand, they're "making a stand" against a convenient scapegoat.

... not to say that an attack on Raph would be ethical OR sane. Even if you weren't invincible, Raph, you've been an honorable leader and helped a lot of newbies like myself, which would mean your past is not as important as your future. I know you don't care, but just wanted to clarify my stance on your past "crimes."  :D


You're just making excuses and re-writing history for your own convenience. It only takes someone with eyes to see all the insults and proclamations about Raph's destruction from all of you guys back in the day. You don't have any personal issue with him because if you did, it would lead to your destruction. Meanwhile, a week ago your stance on Jake was this: "Jake seems to be the only one occasionally being a nuisance. I rarely see him myself." But suddenly he joins SPQNR and he's public enemy number one? Please.

I should mention, I don't blame you for dropping it against Raph, that was the right thing to do, even if he didn't have almost 2 billion power. Holding grudges and perpetuating hostilities does nothing for anyone in this game. I'm asking you and Joolz to afford SPQRN the courtesy of not attempting to intervene in our recruiting. I know you, JJL, have already agreed to leave us alone because of the UC Charter (thanks for that, by the way), so this is really directed at Joolz. I know I can't (and wouldn't try to) control your thoughts on the matter, but it's your actions going forward that are relevant to all.

I'm too sleepy to post anything sensible right now, so I might do it later. LOL But whatever TGE and ITO does about Jake and only Jake (no other SPQNR members involved), I will stay out of it. Jake, and in effect IMG, needs to pay in full.. :)  :sleep: :sleep1: :sleep: :sleep1:

"As for Jake/Nero.  A name change doesn't mean his past changes. His past is his past and it will always remain."

So tell us Emperor... Should we bring your past as a pirate into the equation then?

So your assuming the reason I decided to leave Raph alone was because of his power?  Let me tell you this. That had nothing to do with it. Yes we all shared our little insults back then.  Even now some of us don't like or trust raph that much.  That includes myself.  But just because you don't like someone isn't a good enough reason to go to war. I have heard he doesn't care much for me either but so far he hasn't come after me.  Fact is we have no real reason to fight anymore. Yeah we do argue a bit and speak our minds a bit on here to each other. But that is what happens when 2 experienced players aren't huge fans of each other and aren't afraid to speak their mind.  Hell from the looks of it I am one of the few on here that isn't afraid to speak their mind.

As for jake only occasionally a nuisance.  That is but he also supported Dadds actions. Even though he was more of a nuisance then anything he still needs to be held accountable for his actions. From Raph's point of view Dadds has mostly just been a nuisance. Especially in recent times.  Would you expect him to just let everything go if you decided you wanted to take him in?  Fact is by going along with Dadds on this he was just as guilty betraying his allies as Dadds was. ITO in particular deserved better then to have that happen.  Where is the justice in just letting him walk away just because he suddenly decided he doesn't want to fight anymore.   Let me ask you this.  Say a shoplifter steals a bunch of stuff and gets caught. They break down to the cops and say "I am so sorry. I won't do it again.  I am a changed man."   What would your reaction be if the cops just let this guy go?  Fact is Dadds and those who supported him not only betrayed an ally but also committed treason against a fellow member of the GC.  Because this was the last of the GC, this in turn killed it so there was no one to really follow up on that matter officially.  But it is still treason none the less.  Treason itself is a crime.  I am not asking for something outrageous here.  Getting off with an apology is actually a small price to pay after what was done. 


As for my past.  I have never hid from my past as a pirate.  I have never tried to deny it, I have never asked to just be given a complete do over.   I accept it and I face it. To this day many people still don't trust me because of it. But that is my own fault.  Chances are I am going to have to keep proving to people over and over again that they can trust me.  That is the price I must pay for my past. 

Actually Irredrache I haven't compared notes or kept a specific tally but I would say that most definitely Raph has done FAR less damage than Jake. I recall Raph taking out some labs and stuff after we backed Dadds/Jam on his being still considered an outlaw. With the GC dissolved and UC formed, there is no 'outlaw status' any longer.

The UC in my estimation strives to be just and honorable, to preserve justice and peace, not to force justice for past events. With the GC gone and no UC obligation to mess with him Raph has nothing to prove and has stopped attacking and so we at ITO have him listed as being under a 'un-official cease-fire'. If we got strong enough that would probably change. For now *his transgressions* are unpunished, as are Jake's for the most part.

Jake didn't just attack us, he did so out of indifference or support of an *unjust war* which is why I didn't want to let him off so easy. He and Rostin both appear to think Jake/Nero's past actions were reasonable because he was just blindly loyal to a totalitarian. I think that's a good reason to say both of you have a busted moral compass and Jake stays on the hitlist.

But you misunderstand what this is really about for ITO-

The issue at hand is that Rostin(not Jake) initially asked for clemency regarding Jake...then he effectively made our decision on the matter moot. Either we let him off easy or leave the UC or just violate the agreements outright.

This comes off as abusing the UC to shelter a war criminal. There's nothing against this in the UC rules but using it to skirt justice strengthens my resolve to carry out justice if we can. It also means ITO can't be in the UC until we do or the charter is amended. I aim to leave him on our hitlist until he experiences the sort of setbacks he inflicted on us, especially if he won't admit that his/Dadds' attacks were unjust. This will most likely consist of at least 2-3 good hits where his operations are significantly looted, destroyed, and/or ships jumped.

As for SPQNR and the UC:
The character of both SPQNR and the UC is tarnished in my view by using the UC charter to protect a war criminal(for me IMG=Nazis and Jake=top general) who's not even apologized for WRONG-doing. He apologized for our 'losses' but that doesn't make up for the fact it was just for my telling Dadds to 'calm down'. I can't just forgive that if he has no actual remorse for that.

Irredrache, if I ran into your bathroom and stole your toilet paper just before you're about to wipe, would paying you fifty cents back for the tp be enough for you to forgive that?

See it's not the tp/QP that is the issue- it's that the act was offensively wrong. For me Jake's actions aren't just about what was taken, but the fact that it was for no good reason other than to support Dadds' malicious totalitarianism. So no, I'm sorry but 25QP and a 'sorry for your loss' just won't cut it.

Are you F***cking KIDDING ME? Do you even see the words you're typing? Preserve justice and peace, not force justice for past events... except for when JoolzVern feels like forcing justice for past events? At the expense of that very UC? And of alliances and friendships with one of the fairest players AG has ever seen?
 


If you ran into my bathroom to steal my toilet paper, I would grab you by the throat and beat you down. Which is really what the problem is, isn't it? You lost the war, and you're upset. Nero is no Hitler. He fought you in a war that you didn't want. Was it a stupid war? Sure. But all he did was fight in it. He didn't exterminate millions of Jews, or cheat, or surprise attack someone that was still an ally at the time - Dadds dissolved your alliance very clearly, I would say. The galaxy does not bow to your will, Joolz, you are not the sole arbiter of which wars are allowed and not allowed. And now, you've taken the mantle of Dadds. You threaten hostilities and insult allies because you were slighted on the UC forum when Rostin didn't wait to hear you out on the Jake issue before admitting him to SPQNR. How far are you willing to go because you didn't like what happened on the forums? Will you attack Rostin because of a perceived slight? One of the fairest, most peace-loving players in the game?

Let me make something ABUNDANTLY clear to you, JoolzVern. You do not have any say WHATSOEVER in who joins SPQNR. I'm sorry a former member of yours joined us. I'm sorry someone who destroyed your modules joined us. But that's just too d**n bad. It's not your business. If they attack you, in stark violation of the UC and of SPQNR's own constitution, then we will deal with that issue when it arises. But until that time, the amount of say you have in internal SPQNR affairs, such as recruiting, is precisely ZERO.

And know this. If you attack a member of SPQNR, any member who is flying our flag, that is an act of hostility on our entire Corp. You do NOT have the Senate's permission to selectively attack Senators you feel have wronged you. If you feel that violence is the only solution to your problem, I highly suggest you PM Nero in-game and ask him if he'd be willing to set up a duel of some kind. Mutually agreed upon combat at a mutually agreed upon time is a private matter, and not subject to the actions of the Senate. But if you simply attack Nero, or ANY member of this corporation, then this is what happens next: There will be an emergency vote to decide how to deal with the situation. We're a democracy, and war is NOT something we take lightly or choose for our members. Normally, a wanton attack on a member of New Rome would result in a swift vote, and swifter retaliation.... However, since Nero has a great deal more honor than you, he has insisted that we allow you to attack him, because he doesn't want our new players to be dragged into a war. Since you couldn't even begin to handle him by yourself, I'm inclined to let him have his way. But if you persist in this course, and carry out unprovoked attacks on Nero, there WILL be a vote, regardless. The will of the Senate is made law in SPQNR, and God help you if the will of the Senate is that a defensive war is the appropriate course of action.

Irredrache i don't know why you are upset about Jack/Nero, hi can speak in his name
It's was good for him when hi attack all what hi can to destroy, and when hi was wiped out hi decide to declare truce by his side, why hi didn't do that before ...
I am peaceful player but if i go to war i will go to the extinction (my or my enemy), i will not hide after defeat, and what SPQNR done by accepting Jack as fully corp member totally disappoint me.
I am not saying that hi maybe not deserve to be amnestied, but to be accepted from corp which players was attacked so many times by him in past, i don't get it ...

As what I have told Raptor, maybe some of us are taking the game too seriously.  :)

Anyway, Rostin and Irre, if let's say one your allies betrayed you for a very childish reason and kept attacking you for many months, and then they suddenly joined another corp, would you let just it pass and leave them alone? And come on, 25 QPs isn't really much, even for mid level players.. LOL If you answer with "yes" then discussing further will be a waste of time. :)

I do agree with Raph ironically lol

Irredrache if you've been paying attention you'll notice I never told Rostin what to do. I simply CONDEMN IT AND WILL NOT ALLOW JAKE/NERO TO SLIDE and I'm allowed to do so. Nothing in the UC forbids Rostin from taking in guys like Jake. I never told him not to. Nothing forbids me from un-signing the agreements as I did and doing as I please just as Rostin may.

When Rostin did this he didn't just 'slight me' he knew very well that he was telling ITO what to do like Dadds, so just get real ok? This passive aggressive totalitarian stuff isn't working on me. When you go from asking me to forgive someone to forcing us to either do so or leave the UC, I insist that the guy stay on our hitlist. Would be different if he just joined SPQNR right off- I would have not left the UC for an old beef like I will when the UC is used to try to make us let it go. The reason the UC doesn't aim to force justice for past events is so corps individually, CAN. Rostin is the new Dadds from my perspective, trying to tell ITO what to do and break up the UC.
Mission accomplished.

If you disagree that's fine. If you think so highly of someone who by your own admission fought in a 'stupid war' as though he must cheat at the game to warrant this that's fine too. If you want people in SPQNR or corps in the UC that don't really care if what Rostin is doing is stupid that's fine too. The thing is what you think doesn't influence my actions at all.

I unsigned the UC charter as soon as Jam told me Jake/Nero was in SPQNR so we aren't bound by the UC agreement and neither are you as far as ITO goes, but again I repeat myself, at the moment only Jake/Nero is on our list. No duels, just happy hunting. Jam actually had a similar arrangement with Mythiclord though ITO and TGE are allies.

Let's also not forget that Jake quit out of convenience, and not because he is a changed man. Haha. You can read his post about not attacking SSS anymore, there is no sign of remorse whatsoever, so you can tell that he did enjoy attacking everyone, even up to now.  :)

Had I not attacked him relentlessly and had I not destroyed his station a couple of days ago, I seriously doubt that he would quit IMG. He quit IMG because he wanted to mine peacefully, but what about other players that he attacked? Had they not wanted to just mine peacefully? Yet he attacked them. And they didn't really have an easy way out like Jake, did they? They endured Jake's attacks. Now Jake wants to get out easily...

Oh well, let readers decide. :)

A bit over the top, IMO. Rostin just wants more members, and Dadds was, well, on whole different level.  :))

You know I am really sick of this whole situation.  First Rostin comes to us asking for us to forgive and forget Jake's past actions. He says Jake wants to go solo and just start fresh.  I try to explain I can't just let him off the hook.  I also try to explain why.  Just as I have hear. But none of you seem to be able to grasp the reason no matter how I try to explain it.  I told Rostin that while I wouldn't force my people to come after Jake, he would remain on my personal KOS list. Now Rostin knows well enough I don't bother hunting for people usually. What my KOS list means is if I happen to see them I hit them.  When I told him this in the game, he asked if I would still attack him if he took him in. I told him if that happened I wouldn't be able to because of the charter.  On the UC forum the same discussion played out more or less the same way.  Once it was clear that not even a name change would stop us from coming after him, Rostin brought him into his corp.  He might as well have just taken him in without asking us not to hit him. It seems clear this was his backup plan to begin with simply because he was going to make sure we couldn't hit Jake regardless.  So really there was no point in asking us at all.  To me I felt insulted and it really caused me to lose some respect for Rostin.  Now I see how SPQNR is acting here and I lose more and more respect for you guys.  Raph and I may not always see eye to eye but even he understands where we are coming from on this. Not just him it seems others in SSS do as well.

Rostin you know very well I thought highly of you before all this.  I have spoken well of you many times on here and to other captain in the game.  Yes there have been things you have done that have aggravated me a bit but not much to cause me to lose respect for you.  Though I get the feeling you don't care one way or the other how much respect I have for you.

To the members of SSS,  we appreciate your support in this.  You are correct about Jake.  But this isn't about the attacks. At least not to me.  For Jake it is his actions in supporting an unjust war and helping to carry out the war.  Quite frankly if Rostin had taken him prior to this I likely would have told him to f off when he asked me to leave Jake alone.  Now we see them trying to make it seem like we are the bad guys here. They act like we are the ones in the wrong.   It is really trying my patience.  The only thing keeping me from doing something drastic here is the UC.  I care about the charter.  I want to make the UC work.  But that is the only thing holding me back right now.  I keep hoping perhaps SPQNR will at least see reason or that SirEmi will go ahead and unblock Jake for me so I can try to work this out with him myself.


BTW about the incident with Mythiclord. Yes we had that agreement. Mythic was fine with it.  I never did run into him though and he didn't get him. These days I have removed mythic from my KOS list. I got no beef with him now.  He only ended up on it over a matter of principal. He hit one of my guys. I wanted 1 revenge hit.  But oh well. lol.  It was nothing compared to what is going on now. In my eyes Mythic is a saint compared to Jake.

Vira, it's not really about Jake. Jake didn't join us for protection, he's a big boy and can take care of himself.

It's about how SPQNR has been treated by certain other Corps since its inception.

Let's just get the sequence of events straight surrounding SPQNR...

Rostin and myself were members of SSS, as everyone here knows. Rostin had aspirations to one day possess his own corp, and he shared those aspirations in confidence with JJL and myself. JJL, in a calculated attempt to split SSS apart, betrayed that confidence on the forums in a manner that forced Rostin out of SSS at least months before he was ready, and at a time when I was petitioning him to stay in SSS (because *I* wanted to stay in SSS, because Raph pretty much taught me everything I know and I *still* feel indebted to him). This, JJL, is why I will never give a poop if you're upset with us or happy with us or respect us, you permanently lost MY respect when you so flagrantly manipulated things to your own advantage. And frankly, I'm shocked Raph didn't annihilate you for that incredibly untrustworthy move. You used the forums to drastically alter the game itself, which is more dishonorable than any number of attacks in a publicly stated war using actual game mechanics. The forums should be about building the community around the game, not using them to split Corps in the game.

But JJL did that and somehow got away with it. So SPQNR was formed, and we were content to do our own thing. All comers were welcome, and one of those comers was Mythiclord, who had left ITO in an unrelated move. Suddenly, JJL is furious with Rostin and Myth and Joolz cuts all ties with Myth, because apparently Myth isn't allowed to make his own decisions? There was obvious hostility there, but neither JJL nor Joolz had a leg to stand on.

And now, finally, we come to the present. What do you think Vira, is it really all about Jake? Does any of the above lead you to think we've been treated fairly up until now? Our former teammates in SSS have treated us well, and as always sargas is the PERFECT gentleman. But that's about it.

I'm not going to argue about this any more. I don't speak for SPQNR, and I don't want to jeopardize the game for our AWESOME new players that are just trying to learn Astro Galaxy for the first time.... But I do want to respond to something Raph said:


Raph, I would do pretty much exactly as you and JJL have done. I would ask for an apology and be irritated, but I wouldn't jeopardize an existing alliance over it. If I had done what JJL did to Rostin, I'd still be too busy begging for forgiveness to care much about it. I certainly wouldn't go to war over it, especially if I was responsible for the safety and enjoyment of a Corp that looked up to me as leader *cough* Joolz *cough*.

One last plea: JJL, do you want to atone for utterly screwing Rostin over at a time when he completely trusted you? Stop goading Joolz on, and play peacemaker instead. It's within your power to end this nonsense, and usher in the first period of peace this galaxy has seen since Dadds first declared war on Raph.

This

Woah woah woah woah woah... What-the-actual-f**k is going on here?...  :confused:
Can I try to explain myself a little publicly real quick?
1.) Me and my actions...
First off, you guys know me... I am the exact same person who started playing over half a year ago and who was the first player to receive NOT ONE, BUT TWO promotions in the SSS. I must have been doing something right because you guys were all happy to talk to me for the last several months. I have been friends with you all since I first joined the Syndicate in April and have had many enjoyable experiences working with you. I have made it clear that I have ALWAYS wanted galactic peace in this game. Now I knew that wouldn't happen as long as IMG still existed, but *shrug* I could still try right?  :14: I don't know why you are suddenly surprised by my actions. Raph is right that some people take this game too seriously. Why can't everyone just be as chill as Sargas or Lisunken?  :))
I'm not part of your generation of corporations or leaders, and I'm d**n proud to be able to say that! So really, I don't give two-shits about the war you all have had going with IMG since the seeming dawn of time. I really don't. Why should I care about that? Jake has been nothing but a friend and rival to me whereas you guys have ALL done things to make me question your trustworthiness. And quite frankly I am tired of hearing all this jargon about how I "used the UC as a shield for my seemingly unethical actions". I helped found the UC. I contributed to it more than what I needed to and I was behind it since day 1. My recruiting of nero had nothing to do with my association with the UC. You can claim to understand my motivations, but I was not trying to use the UC as a shield. It was convenient, absolutely, but unintentional. I guess I trusted you guys to just let me do this and see over time that jake just wanted to mine without the threat of losing everything everyday.
I admitted this to Joolz and I'll admit it here to. I screwed up not waiting for a reply from you two (JJL and Joolz). I am sorry for that. I forgot exactly what happened but I was just so excited that Raph gave me his blessing that I didn't even consider that you two would be the biggest hard-asses of all. JamJul, I want to make it known that you are being completely reasonable through most, if not all, of this. Your "demand" of nero is not outright absurd and your honoring of the UC charter keeps you in good standing with me personally. Joolz on the other hand...
Comparing me to Dadds. Wow, that would sting a little if there was any truth to that. Also, I'm friends with Dadds in AG too! Problem? He's actually a nice guy if you stay on his good side and don't f**k**g insult him every five seconds. You still think I FORCED you to do anything? Your own stubbornness made you lose control. The fact that you laid an ultimatum on the front desk of the UC offices forced you to act the way you did. My behavior only influences yours if you let it. That is the truth. Don't say you didn't have any options because you did and you still do.
And Raphael, jake didn't betray these guys. Dadds did. Try as you may, I don't pin the sins of one man on another. If I had been trying to take Dadds in I would have TOTALLY understood this reaction and would have expected you to squash me like a bug  :))
2.) My corp and its reputation...
Just like me, SPQNR is not made up of players from your generation. The Senate was very adamant about how to handle the situation and I was at panic-stations-nine for like, the last two days over all of this  :)) SPQNR, EOS, and NHC are the ONLY corporations that don't see IMG members as a lost cause. It's all about restorative justice with us. You guys are so focused on retaliation and revenge that you can't just try a different tactic and rehabilitate a "criminal?"
You can say what you want about New Rome, but the glory days for your corps have ended and mine are just beginning. Raphael is right that I DO want more members! I want peace! I want you all to just stop fighting because of the public actions of a handful of people! Truth is, you guys are the minority. You may be a powerful and present minority, but your continued hostility towards me and "lost of trust" are only the reactions of two people. And vira, if I cared about your disappointment in New Rome I would have asked your opinion prior to all of this...
3.) Jake/Nero...
I also made it clear to anyone who bothered to ask since like, May, that jake was my friend. He always has been.  
Sargas, Mythiclord, Me, and probably dozens of other members did not see Jake as the public menace that you guys are willing to label him as, even in war. Raphael told me once that jake wasn't a bad guy and that quickly became obvious the more I talked to him. Why should Jake apologize and jump through hoops for fighting in a war when all he did was play the game and attack? You say there is no remorse in his message Raph, well yeah, he enjoyed shooting at people just as much as you do. What's wrong with that? He didn't fly off the handle like Dadds. He didn't betray any of you because it was obvious you didn't understand how you can be friends with the same people you fight against.
In regards to the 25 QP, he told us he tried to send money. I knew it was a bad idea and that sum is a bit... insulting. But I didn't know how much he was sending, I just told him you guys were looking for an apology.

My final argument; I only asked you all as a courtesy. I only waited for Raphael's response because he is the sole entity capable of laying New Rome (and me!) to waste. I also thought he would be the hardest sell of all, but I see now that that title goes to Joolz. I'm friends with all of you. You being mad at me only makes you look like children.
I don't care if you stay mad at nero. Go for it. If that makes you feel better and you think that is the healthy option then that is your choice. But I am giving him a new life and as long as he is here he will be treated equally as a Senator, member, and friend.
(^THIS WAS TYPED BEFORE IRREDRACHE'S LATEST RESPONSE^)
I wasn't really *forced* out of SSS, but when I told Raphael my plans he 'pressured' me to accelerate my agenda  :19:

The armalite and ballot box strategy... If you can't get your way politically, there's always the armed route. I guess it marks a nice change from your constant Nazi/fascist references (guys: what do Rostin and the US Government have in common? :p  )

You may have FORMALLY unsigned the UC charter after Nero joined us, but for all practical purposes, you did before, by ignoring its first rule. Look it up again some day :)

Ok lets start with Irredrache.  You really think I purposely blabbed about Rostin wanting to form his own corp just to Raph would cut him loose early?  Get real man.  I wasn't trying to do that at all.  I am one who isn't afraid of speaking my mind to people.  That is what I was doing to Raph when I brought up the Rostin thing. I had a good point. It wasn't to try to drive a wedge in between them though. This was stuff I had heard multiple say and I had even thought myself.  To most people Rostin was the heart of SSS.  I figured even raph knew that and raph knew Rostin was considering forming his own corp.  I thought forming his own corp would be the best thing for Rostin so I encouraged him to do so. Not to hurt SSS but to help himself.  I don't bother coming up with complicated subversive plans like your suggesting. Fact is those take too much time and effort and really aren't worth doing.  Yes I might suspect others of doing this. But that is because I have a tendency to think about things others might do.  I make a plan of action for various situations.  A good leader tries to do that.

 As for Jake joining you.  I call bullcrap on it not being for protection.  His first concern when he decides to leave IMG (after having Raph beat the tar out of him) is to run to his new friend Rostin. He begs him to talk to the other Captains and ask them to leave him alone. So Rostin did. Raph decides to let things go because his members ask him to. It isn't as huge of a deal to him though because the reason for the war is different. IMG's war with Raph began when Raph hit them early on. Dadds took it personally and the war began.  Even when Raph settled down and stopped going after people Dadds did not let up.  In this case Jake was simply another IMG member caught up in the war. The issues in which the war began was much different. In the beginning it was more about revenge against Raph.


With us, the war began over a matter of opinion.  Dadds didn't like what we had to say.  All I did to get his wrath was voice my opinion on the state of his corp at the time.  I also shared my opinions of the other active corps. It was not ment to insult anyone.  Dadds who I thought was my friend, yes like Rostin I began to see he wasn't too bad, tried to bully me into retracting my statement. Had he asked nicely I might have considered it. But I don't respond well to bullying. So I refused. So he declared war. Joolz the leader of ITO, allies to IMG, suggested he calm down and said he understood how it might look that way from my point of view. He never once said I was right.  But Dadds declared war on him as well.  It was after this point I contacted jake myself to inform him of what was going on. I figured he was a reasonable guy.  That he would at least look into the matter. But he didn't seem to want to believe a word I had to say.  Instead his words seemed to mirror things of how Dadds saw things.  Dadds had convinced him I was lieing. Jake never once came on here to check to see what happened here himself. He fully supported Dadds in his efforts without ever seeking the truth with his own eyes.  He could have but didn't.  Yes it was in ignorance that he did so.  But he did so anyways.  Making him just as guilty of betraying ITO as Dadds. Just as guilty for breaking their NAP with TGE.  Even after Dadds began to become less active Jake still attempted to come after both ITO and TGE.  If he really didn't support Dadds on all of this he would have bailed a lot sooner.  It wouldn't have taken a massive attack by Raph.  I am not trying to hide behind anything.   I am just presenting the evidence. Considering all there is, an apology is the least he can do.

As for me getting a little ticked off with Mythic. That is an entirely different matter between me and him. But it isn't anything serious and I am over it now.  What made me a little bad was Mythic told me he was going to go solo for a while.  He also gave me his word if he decided to join an alliance, no matter which one it was, he would send me a message letting me know.  I woke up to find that the night before he had joined you guys and had not bothered to send me a message.  So I felt a little insulted.  That was all.  I got a lot of respect for Mythic.  Which is one of the reasons it aggravated me.




Ok now Rostin. You need to understand how it looks to us from our point of view. First you ask us to leave him alone.  Then when we say we won't you suddenly decide to take him in.  You even asked if he would be safe if he joined your corp.  That right there told me you would do whatever it would take to keep him safe.  Asking us to leave him alone seemed to just be a formality. If you really wanted to just leave it up to us you would have delivered his message, asked us to leave him alone and left it at that.  By taking him in it just showed us you didn't really care how we answered your question.  This is the thing that most insulting to me and I think was insulting to Joolz.  Sargas may have been able to let that go, but we aren't Sargas.  I unlike Joolz did try to let that go though.  I didn't like it but you weren't violating the charter. But I can understand why Joolz didn't want to let it go. He sticks to his principals and is stubborn as hell.   Now we got your members talking to us like we are the bad guys.  I really don't appreciate their attitudes.  I am not even sure an apology from Jake is going to make things right between Jake, you guys and ITO now.   Why? Because of how we are being treated.  I have sat here and tried not to insult your people.  I have tried to explain things reasonably.  Joolz I understand hasn't helped matters but your people are just making things worse. They are fanning the flames.  The more they do so the more insulted we become and more it looks like your corp doesn't care about peace at all.  I believe you do.  But I am having doubts about your members.  I spent the entire day offline because I didn't even feel like dealing with all this.   I am tired of it.   I am closing this thread now and I hope I get Jake unblocked now so can get this entire thing worked out.  It seems clear further discussion here with you guys is only going to make things worse and I urge everyone to just drop the matter entirely on this forum.  Rostin if you wish to discuss this elsewhere we can.