Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
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1  Info Terminal / Add-on projects in progress / Re: Ships / Carriers / Docking on: March 15, 2013, 07:30:27 AM
Yesterday I started the building of 12 high level marines to adapt my ships to the new reality of the COM missions. I required about 250000 metal and gaz to do it. And it is only 12 manufacturing bays. I have about 100 active manufacturing bays right now.

This is to say that with the number of active players actually in the universe, I beilive we are not numerous enough to satisfy my needs only in metal and gaz (not to mention all our needs). I also buy diamonds and uranium by the 1000's to be converted as fuel so my ships can do COM missions for a few weeks without comming back to earth. In my opinion, I do not beilive the proposed economic system would work. Let start with a market for exanging modules and ships and we will see how it work then we can think of how to expand it.

Your Correct, the current player base under a real supply and demand economy couldnt easily fill YOUR CURRENT requirements.... but, that just means that under a supply and demand economy you wouldnt have been able to advance so rapidly. I should also like to point out that under the current system your style of play, is THE ONLY viable option if you want to stay competitive in terms of power. Explorers, Miners, Pirates, PvP's, Freighters, Traders all have no chance of keeping up with some one focusing exclusivly on COM signals. It essentially turns the game into 'I WIN'* for them.

However if there was a supply and demand economy, then those doing the mining, or trading would have been on the down stream recieving end of a lot of COM Signal hunters income, and would be a lot closer in power to them, thus better able to fullfill the resource needs...  That is why introducing a supply and demand economy would require a reset, because the demand and the ability to supply it are now so far out of sync the game would spasm horribly if it was introduced.

Unfortunatly the game seems to have a Multiple Personality Disorder. It taunts players with mining, manufacture, exploration, station building, trading etc... but then Nerfs them all in favour of COM signal hunting as the only option to actually play the game competitively which you have to do because the game is also PvP. My point is if thats all the game is meant to be, then why bother with all the other stuff in the first place? Get rid of it and focus on making a really great space bassed 'NPC pirate hunting' game.... However, I think that would waste a lot of the effort that has allready gone into those aspects, and its probably not what EMI had in mind with the game either.

So the upshot is that without a reset the only way to make those other carriers viable is with the introduction of storyline or alternative missions for them that offer a similar level of risk/reward over time, that the current COM signals give.. mining contract quests, exploration quests, etc...

But i cant help think how much richer the game play would be if players had to interact, had to work together, had multiple equally rewarding carrier paths etc...

There will be a story to everything that happens, for example Earth may have an event like a short supply of X mineral / gas. Then it will buy at premium prices for a while, mobilizing the miners.

Also new outposts my appear, selling cheaper minerals / gases mined on the surface, they may even take some parts of the economy from Earth meaning that to get that X mineral, you need to travel to that X star / planet that is mining it for Sol. Bringing it to Earth may also fetch a nice price while you're at it, as Earth will buy but not sell that.

All that makes for interesting news and twists, as things happen and everyone can take advantage of that to find profit opportunities. New stations / shipyards may appear as SOL Corp tries to colonize further, and events will unfold, even a war with an alien civilization could happen 1

That all sounds nice Emi. unfortunately, however, I suspect that basic implimentations of these will not offer similar levels of risk/reward over time as the COM signals do, simply because the way that COM signals get more and more rewarding bassed on your ship power levels.... a similar mechanic would need to be introduced... mining missions that get more and more rewarding bassed on you ability to mine. Freight missions that get better bassed on your ability to carry cargo..... if you do introduce these please keep that in mind and if i might make the suggestion actually run a few simulations....

There is also the issue of the massive power differences between those that have chosen to COM hunt and those that have tried their hands at something else... the COM hunters will be able to switch to those new missions if they like and be already significantly better at them than none COM Hunters.... but even so at least having alternatives to COM hunting would be good....



* watch kids, they love this game, especially while the struggle to learn that virtually all games are actually more fun if everyone has more or less equal chances to win.
2  Info Terminal / Updates / Re: Battle optimizations / updates on: March 14, 2013, 06:27:35 AM
Nice update.

Has there been any changes to how multiple ships fight? Ie do multiple ships line up single file to fight against a single target?
3  Info Terminal / Add-on projects in progress / Re: Ships / Carriers / Docking on: March 14, 2013, 06:14:16 AM
Aysle i would argue that the universe should be smaller... but thats me... i prefer to actually see someone else every once in a while.
4  Info Terminal / Add-on projects in progress / Re: Ships / Carriers / Docking on: March 13, 2013, 06:03:26 AM
The economy is slightly off topic here but i guess it does have an extension to docking, trading etc. Instead of turning off trading sales at sol, which would make things even harder for a new player to get a foothold as JamJul points out, consider a "tick" accumulation of products based on their relative rarity/value. In this way products continue to be available or produced automatically over time and accumulate at sol trading centres. Sure big players with cash can come in to clean out the stores, but a lot of "big Players" tend to be a long way away from Sol and not always bothered with its trading sales. Of course any goods coming into Sol to be sold on the commodities market should be immediately added to sol reserves and available for purchase by other pilots. Being able to control the price or resell from individual stations would also be advantageous, but limit it to say +-15% of sol prices for the resell. This concept would really help build economy and supply/demand. Naturally, you will still need to be able to defend your stations from pirate raids where you were advertising goods for sale.

This is a really good idea.  It would also give people more reasons to mine. By mining and selling resources, people can help the economy. I see big players only cleaning out the resources there if they are building a new ship or making a huge upgrade.

While were off topic and on the subject of the economy....

One of the issues with the ingame economy is that there are no long supply chains, either in the generation of cash or for collection of resources. For example you do com missions, get paid, and spend the money at Earth buying the resources to upgrade your modules. Those players that like to mine (poor buggers) go mine, sell unwanted minerals at Earth, get paid, then buy additional resources to upgrade their modules. There is no link between those mining and those doing the significantly more profitable com missions. This needs to be rectified.

The reason for the price cap on trading at player owned stations is to stop players transfering wealth from one player to another... ie to block farming. But ever since looting was introduced and especially since station cargo hold looting there were 'lossy' ways around that. With the introduction of the Corp ships there is now a 'lossless' way to transfer wealth from one char to another. So the whole reason for fixed pricing disapears.... but even if fixed pricing was removed, there is still an effective price cap in place because of the infinite availability of resources at Earth.

If the trading hub at earth was removed, so that players couldnt just buy any quantity of resources they wanted but had to buy resources from other players. then the price would be solely determined by supply and demand. This would also balance out the income disparity between com missions and mining, if too many people are doing missions, then the prices of minerals rise making mining more attractive... if there are too many mining then the prices drop. More importantly the cash injected into the game economy via the Com mission payouts is spread across the player base.

There is ofcourse the problem of newbies.... where will they get stuff to build modules? The solution make SOL corp a real CORP. Newbies start as members and the trading hub at earth could be set to corp only. It could be made so that it allways has a supply of the resources needed for tech 1 modules... or even simpler just sells all the tech 1 mark 1 modules.

I guess the trading hub at earth could be set up so that it allways purchases resources (perhapes at a fixed price) so that if no-one is interested currently in buying selenium and you have a big load of selenium in your cargo hold you can still sell it to earth.... this would effectively set a minimum price for the goods, but sets no maximum. The other advantage is that it will even out the growth rate of the players, if modules can only be upgraded using resources that some player had to mine, then there is a finite amout of module mark levels that can be built. It means that players dont grow exponentially rather much more linearly bassed on how much mining is being done.

Unfortunately fixing this now would be problematic, it would freeze the power disparities between players, making it nigh on impossible for lower powered players to ever catch up. Rather it would probably have to be associated with a full reset.... or a relauch in a different shard. But doing so would be a dramatic improvement to the balance of the game.





5  Feedback Terminal / Suggestions / Re: Probes on: March 13, 2013, 05:17:04 AM
What about calling them scanners. We already have short range scanners for taking a look at the makeup of a ship.

It would be good if you could jump your ship into a system and perform a long range scan that reported on the tech in system. Preferably with a counter module say oh 'cloaking' that could be used to hide from the scanner. Then its a simple comparison of scan level vs cloak level if scan level exceeds cloak level you can detect the objects presence.... the greater the difference the more information you get.

The rational could be that technology gives of energy signals that can be detected making it possible to detect the ship.

Originally i was not so keen on being able to 'search' a whole quadrant at one time from a single ship even if its a one off, although now after some more though i really dont see a serious problem with it, especially in light that you could do the same thing with a carrier and a bunch of scout ships, So i suppose probes could extend scanners so that they are like a one time use mini scout ship that you can send too a system to perfrom a scan. The probes could be built as a seperate module (perhapes as a downstream science branch of the scanners in the electronics/survelance science tree.). You set a target system, then when they 'arrive' a scan report is generated AND SAVED IN YOUR SCANS... then the probe runs out of power. Probe tech levels could influence the scan level, and even the range.

I think that planetary surveys should probably be excluded from the scans, that is there should still be a roll for the exploreres to go out and collect planetary surveys.
6  Corporation General Talk / Corporation Stance / Re: [IMG] on: January 16, 2013, 05:46:58 AM
@Scion Just because someone is a pirate doesn't mean they deserve to be disrespected.

As we all know disrespect means both lacking respect and being insulting. Now i dont like to be insulted, but it really does just come with the teritory, If you attack other people you must surely expect to loose their respect, and that they may be driven to insult you as well is hardly surprising especially if that is the only means they have of immediate reprisal. Wether we actually deserve to be insulted could be a matter of debate, but that it will happen is not. If you dont want to be disrespected then the solution is simply to not Attack people. IMHO too believe that you can attack people and still demand that they not be disrespectfull is ... well, its a little deluded my friend.

When it comes to matters of diplomacy, both sides should at least pretend to respect each other. Otherwise nothing would ever get accomplished and a war could break out like it has here.

When it comes to diplomacy it surely helps if both sides remain polite or at least civil, but you can be polite while still showing your complete disdain for someone, You can even be polite and disrespectful at the same time. I actually think for the most part youve both done at reasonable job of staying polite, at least weve not been inflicted with a slew of foul mouthed obsenities as others may have been want to do.

7  Corporation General Talk / Corporation Stance / Re: [IMG] on: January 15, 2013, 12:31:13 PM
Hey JJL,

Just wondering why your getting caught up on this respect thing.

I hardly expect to get any straight up respect for how i choose to play. And quite frankly IMHO between you me and the door post, neither I nor you, or anyone else for that matter that preys on the week really actually deserves any.

Perhapes i could get some grudging respect for my game skillz... but none for me as this character, because, hey, Im a pirate... and who in their right mind is going to hold me in high regard or esteme for stealing from them? Why should my victims have to show any regard or for my feelings, or wishes, when i have so blatantly shown none for theirs?

Now i do feel, no i state unequivocally that i and every other player in the game has the right to be dealt with politely, but I am in no way expecting anyones respect.

IMG is a corp hell bent on taking retribution against pirates. PMI is a corp that actively supports and engages in piracy... you guys are never goning to get on. Enough of this war of words already, show us what the both of you are made off!
8  Caffe / Whatever / Re: fuu... need to get back to pirating... on: January 11, 2013, 04:46:16 AM
Oh dear, This is why i try and warn anyone that applies to my corp that they should take the time to really consider if they want to be tagged as a pirate or not. Once you go down that road its going to cost you to turn around and go back. If its possible at all.
9  Corporation General Talk / Corporation Stance / Re: Galactic law (draft) on: January 09, 2013, 01:06:17 PM
Just to point out that the determination of wether a loss is small, medium, or large really is in the eye of the beholder.  For a newbie lossing the resources from a mine thats not been cleared for 2 days could represent a significant loss.

Personally id like to see some sort of legal rating system incorporated into the actual game as described in some of the suggestion threads.

heck id even support adding both automatic and player specified bounties.

FWIW Its irrelevant wether OX would ever signoff or agree to something like this since we would continue to play bassed on our own moral code anyway.


10  Corporation General Talk / Corporation Stance / Re: [IMG] on: January 07, 2013, 02:56:43 PM
The reason I tear down space stations with weapons on them when I find them is because if they get a big station set up there, it could post a problem in the future.
stations are not potatoes, they do not grow with time. one can set up an artificial moon with nukes, shields and thousands of marines in a matter of minutes.

One can? no! Theres oh at least... lets see... a good half a dozen players or so out of all the past and currently active players that can actually do that. Anyone else will have to work long and hard to get to that point.

Destruction of stations like that is an act of subjugation clear and simple, its certainly not piracy. You can hardly expect that people will not seek retribution. Unfortunately for the game though most newbies just throw in the towel after a few hits like that.

I do agree about not using foul langauge is both unnecessary and potentially against the rules. However people do react in the heat of the moment, they fire off a nasty PM to vent their frustration, but remember in 99% of these situations it was the player who attacked first that started it. Complaining that a snowball gets bigger when you roll it down hill is kinda baffling.

11  Feedback Terminal / Report Abuse / Re: Clearer rules on Greasemonkey Scripting. on: January 06, 2013, 12:13:35 PM
All i would like is some sort of public clarification of the rules so that everyone is aware of what is allowed and what is not. I also felt that the wider community should be made aware that some level of scripting appears to be allowed. Who knows, perhapes those that are capable and have good ideas will be willing to post the scripts theyre using in the public domain and we can all benifit from them.
12  Feedback Terminal / Report Abuse / Re: Clearer rules on Greasemonkey Scripting. on: January 06, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
I think you are misunderstanding. What was said about this script
Nope, I know exactly what was meant. Instead of Manually having to unload each MIF/ATH deployed to the surface the script would do it for you with the click of a new button. It is still automating the action that a player has to currently do manually.

Sure its only a simple time saving script, but its a step up from providing additional information into automating a boring repetitive ingame task.... the point remains where is the line. How much automation is allowed?




13  Feedback Terminal / Suggestions / Re: Selling Menu while at SOL on: January 06, 2013, 11:20:28 AM
Nice Suggestion,

I sometimes have quite a mixed bag of resources in my cargo hull. Sometimes enough to do a module upgrade with much to much of one of the resources required for that module.

If all my manufacturing slots are currently full this would certainly help speed things up a little. especially if its not just one module but several different sorts.
14  General Talk / General Discussion / Re: Out with a Bang! on: January 06, 2013, 11:08:51 AM
And for all the bragging, I'm the only one here who took down Sir Emi. Twice. 16
You might be right, Im pretty sure ive bagged him 3 or 4 times certainly not just twice ;) .... you know, while were all bragging.

FWIW Jaqvaars VIP may have been purcahsed for longer than the 1 month period ... and  im sure he is smart enough to know that simply changing your name doesnt really hide who you are/were
15  Feedback Terminal / Report Abuse / Re: Clearer rules on Greasemonkey Scripting. on: January 06, 2013, 10:57:40 AM
when its installed on opera or grease monkey for Firefox it adds to the survey the amount u can earn a hour of each mineral. making it look like this

Rhodium 375 m3 54.37 km $281,250 ($342/h)
This is exactly the problem or point im raising. Most games ive played something like this would be considered a breach of the rules (although admitedly almost impossible to detect), some might consider that 'automating' this sort of calculation to be 'Automating the actions of a player outside the mechanisms provided by the in game menu' given that the game doesnt already do this for you and without a script you have to do this calculation manually. However it could also be argued that no in game action is being automated here, so it is fine. Typically the reason for banning something like this script is because using it provides an advantage in that it makes it easier to maximise profit potential from mining. Unless everyone has access to the script then those that do are gaining an (unfair?) advantage over those that dont.


one that with a click of a Button, That will be added to planets menu that auto extracts all resources from mines and sticks it in ur cargo for u, so u dont have to go threw all mines and do it manually..
A script to do this Is definately automating actions that a player must normally perform manually in the game. I and i assume many others would have considered this a breach of the Rules. However if the reply from Sir Emi in Wolfdocs post is correct, then he doesnt see it as a breach.

If a script to automatically manage mines on a planet is ok, is a script to automatically pick up 3 interstellar transport jobs going to the same system? What about a script that automatically scoops all the mines on a planet into your ship. Or a script to swap a bunch of modules in your ship and its cargo hold to say beef up your weaponry during an attack. What about a script to QP jump a ship to a location that is being atacked and to then use QP to open fire on the attacker? A Script to automatically complete Combat missions in your cargo hold? Where is the line?

That is why I would like some guidance from SirEmi himself here on what is allowed and what is not.
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