Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
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Author Topic: Admiral Piet Hein policy on mining blockades  (Read 1700 times)
NoBrain
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2022, 04:19:11 AM »

I must admit I am very frustrated with the direction this scenario is headed.

In the past I admired how the larger players in AG spent considerable time and resources in helping the smaller players learn and grow. It was a real community, and numerous times I and others remarked that it would be great if in real life the 'large players'  would be as much into helping the smaller players as the players in AG were.

Now it appears that it is us, looking at the recent examples provided by the 'large players' in real life and emulating them.

As per the comments from NoBrain - here are my thoughts:
1. "All I see is just bend for SPQNR.. and recive payment to look the other way.."

I don't understand what you think we are asking you to 'bend' or 'look the other way' for.   The COM strategy we are using now was introduced to SPQNR by Stargazer almost 2 years ago prior to the split off of LOEP.   He even assigned anyone in spqnr who asked,  several COMs that he had initiated himself, just before they were due, so that we could fight the coms and have an idea if how simple and profitable it was.   I don't ever recall anyone saying, at that time, that it was an exploit that was against any AstroGalaxy rules.    Although numerous spqnr members were content to mine rather than do COMs at that time,  Cakers ocasional attacks pushed more of us to use that COM strategy over time rather than risking the loss of expensive mining assetts.

The only practice that I recall having had numerous discussion in spqnr  as being 'not permitted in AG' was the use of automation scripts.   If anyone was/is 'looking the other way' it was/is all us non-scripters.  Many of us including Gildavinor (now in LOEP) openly stated that we would not get into scripting because we felt it was either not permitted, or at the very least not fair to other players.   Admitedly, we were more than willing to 'look the other way' in regards to the PT hunting scripts because, when there was a universal database available for the sale and purchase of mining claims, we could all truly say it was a win/win benefit for ALL players, including those outside spqnr.   I admired the considerable energy/effort that NoBrain put into developing the PT collecting and listing efforts, and that was one of those very helpful things  that I mentioned in the intro above.

2. "We can't make any treaties as we a(re) pirates in a pirate corp.."
Just because you are 'pirates' does not mean you cant have a treaty.   look up 'Treaty of Tripoli 1796'.   If fact 'privateers' were basically just pirates that were commisioned by a country, and had made agreements to only attack specific targets, or to not attack specific targets.  The normal aim of piracy is to make quick riches with minimal effort.   Yet when offered a way to make an easy 1000 QP per month with little to no effort on your part, you turn that down.  That does not sound like what a pirate or privateer would do...

Yes, I admit we were also willing to overlook all the automated hunting/killing scripts that NoBrain made to protect players against pirates.   Similar to the PT hunting scripts mentioned above, I considered it as something that would allow players both inside and outside spqnr to be able to enjoy the game more by not loseing as much of their mining equipment to persistant pirates like Caker and other players at the time.   Before the split, we had lobbied for SirEmi to implement some changes that would at least make it possible for a player to counter attack or track an attacker, to at least have some balance in the odds against fighting a pirate; but to no avail.

The actions of Caker (in piracy and also in hacking into inactive player accounts), as well as the lack of development interest by Sir Emi were the main reasons LOEP formed.   There were several objectives of LOEP.  One was to fight Caker, and give him a taste of his own medicine without being encumbered by the diplomatic process of SPQNR.    Another objective was to attract the attention of Sir-Emi in the hopes of him making changes to Astro Galaxy that many players had been asking for.   To do this NoBrain wanted to make AG unplayable by newer players and thus reduce the potential for income to  Sri Emi from players purchasing QP to get VIP status.    Although the majority in spqnr did agree with the goals that NB (and others) had; we did not agree with the method that was being proposed, and voted against such a move; causing NB and others who agreed with his proposed tactics to split off from spqnr to form loep.

In regards to those LOEP objectives:  It appears from comments/proposals made on the AG board that Caker has seen the light and now realizes that piracy by large players against smaller players detracts from the overall enjoyment of the game by the majority of players.   That is one positive accomplishment that I give full credit to NoBrain in accomplishing.  Unfortunately,  it also appears that NB is now intending to take over Cakers role and detract from the gameplay of the majority of other players by, among other things, dumping large coms indiscriminantly throughout the galaxy, especially in places where other players already have COMs in progress.  

As for the the objective of inspiring Sir-Emi to do some game development; I did not agree on the tactic but I did have some small hope that it might work.  After almost 2 years with loep working on that strategy with no disernable result, I have given up on that hope.

I expect that if we all want to continue to enjoy playing AG we will all need to work together and come up with an agreement that is acceptable to the majority within the current AG implementation without the expectation that we will ever see enhancements made.   Maybe after 2 years, it is time for us all to 'let it go' and return at least somewhat  to how things were pre Caker/LOEP.

3. Choice is still up SPQNR..
 What 'choice' are you talking about?    So far the only choices I see is to either quit playing AG or put up with your ever increasing use of scripting which over time continues to expand and make the playing of Astro Galaxy more and more difficult by anyone other than those who are willing to bend/bow to wishes of the biggest bully.   Although an spqnr member has offered significant financial incentive to NB to allow the game to remain playable to no avail, I have not seen any other choices offered by NB/loep.

If we continue down this path, at some point the only player that will be active is NoBrain.   It will not really even be him playing, it will just be his robo scripts.    Will anyone be willing or even able to save mankind from extinction by a hostile artificial intelligence in a post-apocalyptic future? (Terminator - Rise of the Machines).

The choice is to leave a free Station slot or not...

Quite simple..
If all station slots are blocked With COMs, I Just add one the the stack.. (If I have one)

I also want to play the game you know.. or I had stopped a long time ago..
But SPQNR have blocked more and more system with Unmatted COM's (Dark COMs)

I had to leave SPQNR, because the proposed solution to a problem also had a ultimatum.
It was not supported by the Senate and our path had to end..
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2022, 04:33:52 AM »

But if blocking station slots is the problem, that is an easy issue to resolve. Let us buy the deposits at planets or moons where we are blocking the station slots.

This way, the orbit isn't blocked from the person who owns the deposit.

Win-Win situation.

No the solution is to stop blocking all station slots..
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2022, 04:49:01 AM »

Explain how that harms you. If I pay you the full price of every PT I block, in what way do you lose out?

It harms me to see a Bug beeing exploied to extream by SPQNR.. and Sir Emi not doing anything about it.. And I have desided to do so..
In SPQNR I could use the senate to control it.. but after I left there have been an groth of big dark COM's..

Just like it hams you to see how I play AG...
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2022, 05:31:23 AM »

Before adding a few questions and comments by myself, I just want to state that I fully subscribe to the long message from Jonrovian I have been playing this game as it is about peaceful exploration and support among the players. There are other games out there for bullies and warmongers...
I am a bit puzzled why we are having this discussion at all.
@NB - If SPQNR is indeed making it difficult for other players in this game, shouldn't you be happy? After all, you ,made this your purpose, destroying any ship, station or mining gear with just a few exceptions.

Anyhow, from a statistics point of view SQQNR is not monopolizing this galaxy. We operate in around 6% of all sectors. I don't know the overall numbers from the corporation, but I do know my own: I have got coms over 170 planets and moons which are stabilized by my own ships. Ony 10% of those would block new stations, which is anot eeven the real picture as half of those are 1 slot planets where mining is never profitable. Another 400 planets on those stars don't have any coms at all. In addition there are 10 stars in my operating sector which are not stabilized and open for business by default. I don't see how this game play can create a big disadvantage for other players. In any case, where this becomes a real impediment, I am happy to compensate the player for any potential loss. Adding those numbers from above and being among the 10 top players, my share of blocked plnets is somewhere around 0,005%. My ongoing mining operations block around 0,01% of all planets in comparison and I have heard no complaints about that...

@NB - If you are serious about not monopolizing the game you should scale down your ARC operation where you harvest around 90 to 95% of all alien ship wrecks.
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2022, 09:57:13 AM »

I now have no income and my game has been closed down by CH. I have been painted into a corner, so have no option now but to stop fighting coms and devote my entire resources to attacking the person who has done this.

Before this happens, I have one final offer to make station slots available at every PT:

Maximum 8 pirate stations at any planet that can support a PT
Maximum 3 pirate stations at any moon that can support a PT
Unlimited pirate stations at asteroids, 1-slot, anything that can't sustain a PT

That way, if the orbit is blocked, it's because you have dropped a Com. It won't be my doing.

The offer to buy the PTs off you at above market rate is also still there.

This offer has a 24-hour expiry.

My terms is to leave a free station slot.. I don't care if a PT can be found or not.

I'm not destroying your game, I'm just limiting your income from exploiting a bug in AG..
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2022, 02:09:19 PM »

It's Max 8 stations for all bodys, except 4 stations for moons.. one is free means Max 7 / 3..

I'll stop dropping on the current COM's, if there are SPQNR ships in orbit..

I will resume, if number of stations increase or the 60 days has ended...
60 days starting after you (SPQNR) has accepted..
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2022, 02:30:26 PM »

Couple of things:

If you look at Uranus, you'll see there are 9 stations there. I've just confirmed by doing a test at Sirius Eta 9 stations allowed (so 8/3 is correct, not 7/3).

Are you saying that you want both a limit on the number of stations AND a ship in orbit?

You understand that switching to Com Dark was never about exploiting a bug in the system it was a way of being able to still fight coms by having the stabilising ship in the safe zone. With his stolen spaceship, Caker destroyed our ability to safely keep ships in orbit while fighting a Com.
If you have tested it, then it will be 8/3..

8+ nest coms need a ship in the 60 days.. if no ship is in orbit, I'll drop on on top..
SPQNR has no problem with Caker..
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2022, 02:44:53 PM »

Can you clarify?

Are you saying the 8/3 only applies if there is no ship in orbit?

You're happy with any number of com missions as long as there is a ship in orbit for the full 60 days?

For the next 60 days all nest COM's over limmit 8/3 and a ship in orbit will not be dropped.. but If no ship and over limit there will be dropped. if under limit none will be dropped..

After 60 days if there is more nest COM's 8/3, there will be dropped.. if under limit none will be dropped..
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2022, 03:00:47 PM »

If we go for this, you have to stop dropping coms for the next 60 days.

If you keep dropping coms in the next 60 days, the orbits will never be clear, so we will not be able to guarantee 8/3 after 60 days. They will have your pirate ships in orbit, so we won't be able to get rid of the stations.

If you drop a com in 50 days' time, it will take 110 days before the orbits are clear of stations.

We need 60 days of no dropped Coms if we agree to this. Then, we after 60 days, there would only be 8/3 in orbit.

For the next 60 days all nest COM's over limmit 8/3 and a ship in orbit will not be dropped.. but If no ship and over limit there will be dropped. if under limit none will be dropped..

After 60 days if there is more nest COM's 8/3, there will be dropped.. if under limit none will be dropped..
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2022, 03:18:10 PM »

We both have to be reasonable for this to work, and you are being unreasonable.

If you want us to limit our com activity and agree to limit the number of coms we fight, you have to meet us halfway and give us 60 days to sort out our messed-up coms and completely change our gameplay.
Why ??

You said that you only had a limmited numbers of big dark COMs..
I've 97 COM's over limit in my DB.. So Chose..
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« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2022, 03:40:02 AM »

If we go for this, you have to stop dropping coms for the next 60 days.

If you keep dropping coms in the next 60 days, the orbits will never be clear, so we will not be able to guarantee 8/3 after 60 days. They will have your pirate ships in orbit, so we won't be able to get rid of the stations.

If you drop a com in 50 days' time, it will take 110 days before the orbits are clear of stations.

We need 60 days of no dropped Coms if we agree to this. Then, we after 60 days, there would only be 8/3 in orbit.

For the next 60 days all nest COM's over limmit 8/3 and a ship in orbit will not be dropped.. but If no ship and over limit there will be dropped. if under limit none will be dropped..

After 60 days if there is more nest COM's 8/3, there will be dropped.. if under limit none will be dropped..


fine by me i still work with timer ships present at my coms and i am in the fourth ring
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