Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
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Author Topic: Clearer rules on Greasemonkey Scripting.  (Read 5053 times)
Scion
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« on: January 04, 2013, 05:03:26 AM »

Emi,

Some players openly claim to be using or developing scripts / bots to automate in game actions.

Lol first I currently working on 5 different greasemonkey scripts or have someone doing it for me.

however the game rules imply that any use of a script to automate player actions is not allowed.

Quote
    Forbidden actions    
        (I) It is forbidden to use any type of software that can harm or interfere with the correct functioning of Astro Galaxy.    
          
        (II) Forbidden programs    
        It is forbidden to use any bots or other ways of artificial stay online in the game. The same goes for programs that automates the actions of a player outside the mechanisms provided by the in game menu.

Ive played many online games in the past and all so far have strictly forbid the use of bots & scripts or altering the game interface in anyway via for example greasemonkey. So my and I would assume the majority of people playing the game even if they did bother to read the rules assumption was that no bots or scripts of any kind are tollerated in this game.

However if the the use of greasemonkey scripts is allowed then i would ask for a clearer definition of what is allowed. So that everyone can choose wether to use them knowing they are not violating the terms of the game.

Personally i think saying some actions can be automated and others not is simply inviting the same sort of abuse that we saw with the voting.
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 08:52:47 AM »

Everything WolfDoc works on he runs by Emi first to make sure the script is ok. None of the ones he is making is stuff that would automate anything.
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WolfDoc
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 02:59:16 AM »

Message to emi

well ill just ask u about this, if allright if we make greasemonkey add on for ur game, wont play the game but add a few helpful things, like this

http://www.sendspace.com/file/******

when its installed on opera or grease monkey for Firefox it adds to the survey the amount u can earn a hour of each mineral. making it look like this

Rhodium 375 m3 54.37 km $281,250 ($342/h)

next one im working on is One that auto extract data from a planet, like Mining and players on the plenet and sticks it in a spreadsheet as u visit planets..

then Kerbos wants me to make one that with a click of a Button, That will be added to planets menu that auto extracts all resources from mines and sticks it in ur cargo for u, so u dont have to go threw all mines and do it manually..


Emi reply


Astro Galaxy Support
11-Dec-2012 21:34
Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for your donation

Yeah, it's no problem you can make those adjustments.

I'll probably add some of those into the game with updates too, we already have a unload all mining facilities to ship button planed, and the solars / hour in survey sound good too.

Your group tag is now working.

Thank you.

Sir Emi, AG Support
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Scion
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 10:57:40 AM »

when its installed on opera or grease monkey for Firefox it adds to the survey the amount u can earn a hour of each mineral. making it look like this

Rhodium 375 m3 54.37 km $281,250 ($342/h)
This is exactly the problem or point im raising. Most games ive played something like this would be considered a breach of the rules (although admitedly almost impossible to detect), some might consider that 'automating' this sort of calculation to be 'Automating the actions of a player outside the mechanisms provided by the in game menu' given that the game doesnt already do this for you and without a script you have to do this calculation manually. However it could also be argued that no in game action is being automated here, so it is fine. Typically the reason for banning something like this script is because using it provides an advantage in that it makes it easier to maximise profit potential from mining. Unless everyone has access to the script then those that do are gaining an (unfair?) advantage over those that dont.


one that with a click of a Button, That will be added to planets menu that auto extracts all resources from mines and sticks it in ur cargo for u, so u dont have to go threw all mines and do it manually..
A script to do this Is definately automating actions that a player must normally perform manually in the game. I and i assume many others would have considered this a breach of the Rules. However if the reply from Sir Emi in Wolfdocs post is correct, then he doesnt see it as a breach.

If a script to automatically manage mines on a planet is ok, is a script to automatically pick up 3 interstellar transport jobs going to the same system? What about a script that automatically scoops all the mines on a planet into your ship. Or a script to swap a bunch of modules in your ship and its cargo hold to say beef up your weaponry during an attack. What about a script to QP jump a ship to a location that is being atacked and to then use QP to open fire on the attacker? A Script to automatically complete Combat missions in your cargo hold? Where is the line?

That is why I would like some guidance from SirEmi himself here on what is allowed and what is not.
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 11:08:16 AM »

Quote
A script to do this Is definately automating actions that a player must normally perform manually in the game. I and i assume many others would have considered this a breach of the Rules. However if the reply from Sir Emi in Wolfdocs post is correct, then he doesnt see it as a breach.


I think you are misunderstanding. What was said about this script is that it creates a button when on the surface screen. Probably next to command. You click it and it unloads all the mines on that planet.  In order for it to unload, you have to click the button each time. Emi has talked about adding something like this to the game.   This isn't really automating unloading the mines. Besides VIPs can auto unload mines anyways with their stations.  All this is really is a time saving measure. I haven't seen the script yet myself to see where the button will be put at exactly. I am hoping though that Emi gets this feature implemented reducing the need for people to use a script like this.
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Morgwen Dubhspiriag
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 11:15:04 AM »

when its installed on opera or grease monkey for Firefox it adds to the survey the amount u can earn a hour of each mineral. making it look like this

Rhodium 375 m3 54.37 km $281,250 ($342/h)
This is exactly the problem or point im raising. Most games ive played something like this would be considered a breach of the rules (although admitedly almost impossible to detect), some might consider that 'automating' this sort of calculation to be 'Automating the actions of a player outside the mechanisms provided by the in game menu' given that the game doesnt already do this for you and without a script you have to do this calculation manually. However it could also be argued that no in game action is being automated here, so it is fine. Typically the reason for banning something like this script is because using it provides an advantage in that it makes it easier to maximise profit potential from mining. Unless everyone has access to the script then those that do are gaining an (unfair?) advantage over those that dont.

All this is doing is taking knowledge you already have, and doing the math.  I can have SOL market open in a browser tab with 1 of each resource there and it would give me the value of each.  Then, just multiply that * size of the resource and you have the same thing the script would give.. just much easier to see.  In the games I have played (playing), this is not considered a breach of agreement. 

I feel it would be a great addition.  Heck, add it to the survey itself in-game.  We supose to have higher technology rihght?  Well communications could give us instant access to the market values .  So I would support this in any way
the GM infers.

Just my thoughts tho'  7

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Scion
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 11:34:35 AM »

I think you are misunderstanding. What was said about this script
Nope, I know exactly what was meant. Instead of Manually having to unload each MIF/ATH deployed to the surface the script would do it for you with the click of a new button. It is still automating the action that a player has to currently do manually.

Sure its only a simple time saving script, but its a step up from providing additional information into automating a boring repetitive ingame task.... the point remains where is the line. How much automation is allowed?




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JamJulLison
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 11:55:05 AM »

In the past when Kerbos brought up the idea of a script like this on this forum I shot it down.   I still don't personally approve of this. But I do admit such a script which be helpful. Though I would rather have an in game button that does this.   Fact is though Emi is the one that decides what is allowed and what isn't. Since he is ok with it, it comes down to moral values. Kerbos realized such a script would be wrong and gave up all work on it.  Chances are I wouldn't be using it either. But I do understand why some might like it. I got an 86 slot planet and I don't know what I would do without my stations there. It is a big enough chore just changing to mine a different resource when various mining units finish. It would be even worse trying to unload them all one at a time. That said chances are the only times I would be using the button when it is indeed added in is either if I am about to be attacked or if I am heading to bed.  That said regardless of how I feel about the script, you shouldn't take it out on Wolfdoc if he is making one like this. He always ask Emi first if it is alright. So Emi is the one you should blame for approving of it. If he would say no, then the script would began being made
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 12:13:35 PM »

All i would like is some sort of public clarification of the rules so that everyone is aware of what is allowed and what is not. I also felt that the wider community should be made aware that some level of scripting appears to be allowed. Who knows, perhapes those that are capable and have good ideas will be willing to post the scripts theyre using in the public domain and we can all benifit from them.
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SirEmi
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 09:30:03 AM »



The functionality of some of those scripts will be added to the game features, like the one that helps you unload all mining facilities from a planet. In time, most of the scripts will be outdated. I am not too found of micro-management, so whenever I can I will reduce it in the game.

I will allow those scripts for now because it only improves the interface and it also helps me see what features are needed. Everything that the scripts do will also be added to the interface of the game, so there will not be any huge advantage to using it, other then providing a better game experience.

To make it clear, as long as those scripts don't play the game for you by farming missions / attacking, thus slowing down the server, it is allowed.

Anything that may potentially slow the server down is not allowed, so try not to abuse the server with those scripts.

I will monitor the scripts and will add the best features into the game interface.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 09:33:02 AM by SirEmi » Report to moderator   Logged

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