ship sizes in hangers

[JamJulLison]

Not really sure if this is a glitch or just poor design by SirEmi.  I notice 2 different ships of the same ship size actually have 2 different masses. Both are Frigates.  One has a mass of 30500 m3 and the other 45725 m3.  Let me say this. Both ships have the same kind of modules as the other only the 2nd one has more advanced modules.  Now it seems to me that 2 frigates should be able to fit in a hanger and take up the same number of space no matter what modules the other have.  Ok yes perhaps one might weigh more then the other. But for the most part in space weight doesn't really matter much when it comes to traveling through space. Weight only really matters when escaping a gravity well.  I also don't see how that should matter on what can fit into a hanger baby considering both ships would be the same size.  SirEmi I strongly suggest for each of the ships sizes you set a set size for each of them and then just leave it at that.  It might actually increase the usefulness of hangers a bit.

[JamJulLison]

I would also like to point out that one of my titans actually has less mass listed then these 2 frigates.  It has a mass of 12900 m3.  How you came up with these figures is really mind boggling.  Somehow this titan is smaller then the frigate. lol

[SirEmi]

I think ship mass should be changed to ship volume...

Anyway,  mass / volume is calculated like this:

- Ship hangar bay usage depends on:
   -> ship hull size (specified at SOL Shipyard, #mods*25)
   -> total ship cargo bay (either empty or used)
   -> total ship hangar bay (empty or used)
   -> other modules installed on ship that are not cargo / hangar. 100 m3 is added / module installed.

A more advanced module ship is bound to occupy more volume as hangar / cargo bay space increases and so does the volume e.g. a 100 module ship with 50k cargo bay will take up more volume then a 100 module ship with 20k cargo bay.

Maybe mass should be a different attribute and will be used to determine speed bonuses. E.g. an empty cargo ship will have less mass and travel faster then a full cargo bay ship...

Will check and see if I missed something.

[JamJulLison]

I think ship mass should be changed to ship volume...

Anyway,  mass / volume is calculated like this:

- Ship hangar bay usage depends on:
   -> ship hull size (specified at SOL Shipyard, #mods*25)
   -> total ship cargo bay (either empty or used)
   -> total ship hangar bay (empty or used)
   -> other modules installed on ship that are not cargo / hangar. 100 m3 is added / module installed.

A more advanced module ship is bound to occupy more volume as hangar / cargo bay space increases and so does the volume e.g. a 100 module ship with 50k cargo bay will take up more volume then a 100 module ship with 20k cargo bay.

Maybe mass should be a different attribute and will be used to determine speed bonuses. E.g. an empty cargo ship will have less mass and travel faster then a full cargo bay ship...

Will check and see if I missed something.

That formula just doesn't seem to work right.

As for mass effecting speed. Considering our entire method of travel is through wormholes and not actual movement through space (unless you count combat engines) I can't see the mass having much of an effect on speed through travel either.  The exception of course being that a larger ship requires a larger wormhole to fit through.  So longer calculations perhaps being needed to create a larger one.  If by some chance we used a combustion, ion or some other type of engine to push our ships through space, mass would only effect the ship's travel time and stuff while it is within the gravity well of a planet. Once free of it, the mass of the ship would have no effect on it's speed.

[Dadds]

As for mass effecting speed. Considering our entire method of travel is through wormholes and not actual movement through space (unless you count combat engines) I can't see the mass having much of an effect on speed through travel either.  The exception of course being that a larger ship requires a larger wormhole to fit through.  So longer calculations perhaps being needed to create a larger one.  If by some chance we used a combustion, ion or some other type of engine to push our ships through space, mass would only effect the ship's travel time and stuff while it is within the gravity well of a planet. Once free of it, the mass of the ship would have no effect on it's speed.

Not sure what science you subscribe to JamJul. Last time i checked (and i know i am a dinosaur) that E= mc^2 was still the given formula (thanks to the late and great genius mind Albert Einstein.)
Now with that formula, speed effects mass, mass effects speed. Dont argue with me, I didnt make up the relationship LOL.
I know you probably have all the science fiction movies downloaded to a HDD someplace and what you see about wormholes, mass and stuff; actually seems real to you, but let me tell you this: ITS NOT REAL!! lol
Mass effectively does have something to do with speed in the real universe.
Now, as to volume, that seems to be different, which is being utilised in Sir Emi's formula for total "MASS" of a hangared ship. Formula a bit simplistic and annoying, since a very advanced cargo module with nothing in it can fit inside a hull of a ship incapable of actually physically holding its volume. This is the "doctor who-ism" i keep referring to and does break all the known physical laws of the known universe hehe
However, here we have it, an advanced cargo bay that can hold more "mass" than the mass of the ship is.
How to combat this issue for carrier travel? Simple. Apparently when you stow a cargo hold, no matter how large the capacity of that module is, it only takes up 100m^3 in a cargo bay.(i guess we are just removing all the empty space between atoms out of the equation) So, equip a baby adv cargo bay, say MK IX or X and stuff all your big modules in it for transport. It works until another math model comes along to replace current model.

If by some chance we used a combustion, ion or some other type of engine to push our ships through space, mass would only effect the ship's travel time and stuff while it is within the gravity well of a planet. Once free of it, the mass of the ship would have no effect on it's speed.

Give me a break! You probably shouldnt argue points of view with science without actually knowing anything about math haha
Based on relativity, (i know what u are all thinking, here comes another boring lecture from Dadds) as you approach the speed of light, time dilates, and mass increases (and i think some place that volume you occupies diminishes, depending on the formula you apply). Suddenly, you ARE  a gravity well lol. Your mass increases to a point that you are likely to implode into oneself and blink out of existence. Now tell me speed has nothing to do with mass LOL
(oh and on a note, Bon Voyage, Voyager I, the first vessel to ever physically leave the solar system "as far as we know". Only took 36 years to punch through the solar "bubble". Probably not many out there actually remembers the launch. I do)

[JamJulLison]

When an object say a ship is pushed a direction in space, it continues to keep moving on at that and will keep going until it is either affected by a larger gravity well or some other kind of object.  This is why thrusters or other means would be needed to stop that movement.  I am not quite so sure our ships on here would be large enough to generate it's own gravity well.  Or at least enough to effect space travel of another spacecraft.   In the game here though I assume the wormhole thing doesn't have much to do with wormholes simply because we don't seem to have any sort of engines that would move us forward other then the combat drives.  Also considering the FTL is a lot less advanced then the Wormhole Gen it makes me sound like the most we maybe have but are never seen are control thrusters built into every ship to help them maintain orbit.  Here is the definition in the game of the FTL though.

The faster then light (FTL) drive is the first step in executing space jumps across small distances within the same solar system for fast interplanetary travel. The space in front and behind the ship is folded and twisted, warping the ship forward.

Ok this here I am not even sure we can say even creates a wormhole.  From it's description it sounds more like the theories behind how warp drives in Star Trek work.  Problem with that theory for here is the fact that we instantly get from one area to another after the calculations take place.  With a warp drive the time counting down would be occurring as the ship traveled.


Something also interesting in this game is if a ship without any modules is attacked, it will still emergency jump to the safe zone.  Early on I asked SirEmi if this was possible and he told me yes.  Which makes me think each has some built in engines that are never mentioned.  To me the wormhole's gen's themselves sound like they might actually pull in the ships.  Though if the unseen engines theory is correct then the ship may push forward into it. Though then the unseen engines must also stop the ship after it exits the wormhole. Otherwise it would just keep going until it crashed into something.   I am not going to claim to be expert in science.  But I am at least aware of some basics. First let me say I was tired at the time and got massed mixed up with weight. It happens. lol. Also if these methods of travel were indeed true lightspeed then yes weight would have more of an effect on it.  But warp speed isn't true lightspeed and neither is taking shortcuts through space through a wormhole.


Back to the subject of hangers though. His entire way of thinking for these hangers is more mind boggling then even the Dr. Whoism of the cargo bays.  Though not by much but with cargos we can say maybe the stuff is disassembled first. lol  I don't see any sort of logic that can truly explain the hangers.

- Ship hangar bay usage depends on:
   -> ship hull size (specified at SOL Shipyard, #mods*25)

I call bullshit on this one.  If this was truly the case you would not be able to fit a titan class in a smaller class ship at all. Right now I could somehow fit 1 of my titans inside of my Leviathan Class Mothership.  That is something that should not be possible. Unless of course the ship has an external hanger but it would be awkward having them linked up like that.

   -> total ship cargo bay (either empty or used)

This should have 0 effect on what can even fit inside another ship. How is a cargo bay bigger then say a Frigate Class ship? I will concede the weight it adds to the other ship could have some effect.

  -> total ship hangar bay (empty or used)

I assume you mean what is in the hanger of the other ship.  This also shouldn't have any effect on this unless it is affected a little by the weight.

   -> other modules installed on ship that are not cargo / hangar. 100 m3 is added / module installed.

A more advanced module ship is bound to occupy more volume as hangar / cargo bay space increases and so does the volume e.g. a 100 module ship with 50k cargo bay will take up more volume then a 100 module ship with 20k cargo bay.

The only effect these would have is on weight.  All the modules are the exact same size. A more advanced modules doesn't mean it is necessarily heavier though.  Indeed some advanced things can actually be lighter. Just look at computers today compared to the early days of computers. Or Cell Phones now and how they are in the 1980s.   Even TVs and computer monitors have become lighter and take generally take up less space.