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Author Topic: Request for PMI Planet Claim  (Read 5578 times)
JamJulLison
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« on: September 21, 2013, 10:33:17 AM »

I wish to stake claim of Beta Omicron Eridani for PMI.  It is a Gas Giant that currently has no one set up on it.  I wish to set up a quadrant base in that area and want to use that planet to do it.  The primary purpose will be to store resources from pirates nest there until my cargo ship can pick the resources up and then take them back to Earth. Another reason I want it is to make it easier for quicker responses in case anyone in the quadrant needs help in dealing with a pirate. As for what I will set up there. It would be a powerful defense station. A cargo station, a science station and possibly a refueling station.  If a refueling station is set up, I will likely open it up for the public to buy fuel.
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 05:56:12 AM »

Is PMI giving up its claim to Jupiter?

What is the reason why PMI should claim 2 planets? As it has been so far the Corp planet claim has been a claim of base. What reason is it that PMI members can't setup base @ that planet without the claim? The planet is pretty close to Sol why should NEWBs be removed from it in the future? What benefit does it offer others? Cheap fuel can be setup at a dead rock anywhere if needed (see *Sargas Empire*)

IMG see's this as a useless land claim...especiall as IMG has explored and mapped over 3/4 of the known galaxy... perhaps we at IMG should lay claim to a large planet in each quad for "fun" or the betterment of our corp? We can easily drop a large defense station, and large defense ship while we mine, we wouldnt drop science though because we protect the nerds....
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 06:09:09 AM »

Is PMI giving up its claim to Jupiter?

What is the reason why PMI should claim 2 planets? As it has been so far the Corp planet claim has been a claim of base. What reason is it that PMI members can't setup base @ that planet without the claim? The planet is pretty close to Sol why should NEWBs be removed from it in the future? What benefit does it offer others? Cheap fuel can be setup at a dead rock anywhere if needed (see *Sargas Empire*)

IMG see's this as a useless land claim...especiall as IMG has explored and mapped over 3/4 of the known galaxy... perhaps we at IMG should lay claim to a large planet in each quad for "fun" or the betterment of our corp? We can easily drop a large defense station, and large defense ship while we mine, we wouldnt drop science though because we protect the nerds....

No we are not dropping claim of Jupiter.   The purpose of Jupiter is the same as your Saturn.  A status of power and to be able to supply quick responses in case of pirating attacks.  I explained the reasons I wanted this planet before but I will try to explain better.

1. I want to set up a cargo station for my ships that do COMs in that area.

2. I want to set up a science station or two there.

3,. I want to be able to set up a refueling station there. For this I actually need 2 things. The resources on the planet and some crematoriums which I plan on putting on it.

4. I want to set up a defense station. 

5. A place where I can quickly refuel my ships and be able to ensure I always have a ship in the area to try help handle pirate threats better.


Look the resources this planet has is mostly the crap gasses. It's not really going to hurt any newbies by me taking it. Most of the newbies who have the sense to move further out for mining will go further then the first ring. Of course I know there are some who don't.   Taking a crap gas planet doesn't  hurt them though and having a quick response station nearby can help things. At the very least they can get some emergency fuel.  It will also make it easier to keep an eye out for known troublemakers who might take up in those areas.  I would have no problem with IMG wanted to start setting up in each of the known quadrants. With the both of us there things could perhaps go a little smoother.  BTW I am not sure you can even call this a land grab since Gas planets tend to not have any land to begin with. lol
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 06:15:58 AM »

I also would like to say I don't feel comfortable setting up on a planet and limiting access to it without a proper claim being approved by the GC.  Even if I didn't limit access there are some who might claim I have bad attentions in doing this or might use it as an excuse to cause problems.
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Dadds
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 02:52:06 PM »

I see no problem with you setting up all that you want to set up there JamJul. It is in international zone and free to exploit by all who venture there...which brings me to a most important point....ALL WHO VENTURE THERE. A formal claim as set out in our GC charter allows you then to justify an attack on others wanting to set up a camp, or an opposing fuel station or launching platform to go deeper into space. I think a claim of sovereignty just gives you a right to kill passers-by and call it a sanctioned kill.
Go ahead and set up a defence base so that new players cant raid you without some effort. If we were to approve of this type of sovereign claim then technically we at IMG claim all systems in quads -4,-4 to 4,4 that we have chartered and therefore claimed as proof of sovereignty (lol), since we want to also set up defence bases there. Perhaps at some time into the future, we can look at every corp declaring a particular system as their stronghold and base of operations, and acknowledging their claim to it (and this would have to be justified to prove that it was infact a stronghold outpost and not a mobile way-station that keeps moving with resource depletion). I think before we all go down that path though, then ALL recognized corporations (that is corporations that hold more than one individual in their ranks) need to formally recognize and agree to our charter as being a true and just set of conditions for all players, not just those who are members of the Galactic Council. That way all pilots get to say how they would like the charter to work and look. Of course the leading vote for veto will remain as a majority vote by its serving Galactic Council Members. Its probably why the rest of the pilots out there think we are trying to dictate terms to them and run things our way to suit ourselves. Even pirate clans can agree to the terms of it. They may not necessarily abide by its content, but they acknowledge the consequences by accepting the charter.
Only when all this comes to pass can i see a future for claiming territory as "founded" or "sovereign" territory, to be entitled to repel borders and deny entry.

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JamJulLison
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 11:31:11 PM »

Claiming the unknown systems as it is would be kind of pointless once supernovas are added in. Imagine getting a stronghold set up and then you either got to take it down or let it  be destroyed by the super nova.  That is why I don't want to set up a strong hold further out.  Also a base in each of the known quadrants stands to help each of the newbies better then if it was set up further out.  Both our corps already have a 0,0 base. Both located in Sol System.  I am not trying to claim an entire system or quadrant either. I have long since give up on doing that sort of thing.  Yes I did try it early on when I first started mining. This was just prior to our war. lol.  I am just talking a single planet that isn't in use that I can make use of and claim as our own. One that might actually be able to do some good for the newbies as well. 

I am aware that other players and corporations may not acknowledge our claims. That is their right of course. After all we started the GC and have more or less formed our own Government. Getting people to accept any Government can be a pain. But we can't let that stand in the way of progress either. 

From the sound of things from both you and your number 2, neither of you seem to care if I set up here.  You just don't want me officially claiming it. Am I correct? If so I should point out that any attacks to run people off would not require a warning as it would like it would if we officially were able to claim it. I also don't want to hear claims that this is some excuse to try to set up my pirating operations further out.  I rarely raid anymore. It's true once apon a time I thought of doing something like this for that very purpose.  But that was then.  This is now.  The main reasons I even bothered to go through these official channels before setting up there was so I could avoid any problems that might occur and avoid any unwarranted accusations.
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Dadds
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 12:43:18 PM »

Quote
You just don't want me officially claiming it. Am I correct? If so I should point out that any attacks to run people off would not require a warning as it would like it would if we officially were able to claim it.
See here is the crux of the matter. If you were to start "running people off" and they were to come and complain against unfair treatment in international zones then we as GC members would have to deal with the matter as part of our policing policy (particularly with IMG who have taken on the roll of a Pirate Policing corp) By having no official claim then you cannot legally "run people off" without the matter being looked at with a dim view bordering on piracy. If, on the other hand, you did have legal claim as acknowledged by our GC charter, then that would enable you to control that system for your own purposes, including killing or "running off" colonists, visitors, explorers etc. and we would be powerless to stop you as we would have signed off on it.
Set up your operations as you see fit and defend it as required, which is open to all pilots and corporations to do so. If you are attacked in that system then you have the right to GC protection as all other pilots/corporations do in the galaxy if they are being raided by acts of piracy, terrorism or vandalism.
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Claiming the unknown systems as it is would be kind of pointless once supernovas are added in.
As to that concept, dont push the system you are in to go Nova by destabilizing its resources. Depending on how nova are introduced of course and whether or not it is just a natural cyclic thing in game or caused by our radid depletion of its resources. If its a natural cycle of life/death then i suspect a nova event will be few and far between as these things are galactically a super rare event. TIP! Dont set up a stronghold around a system that has a binary star system that includes a neutron star companion and a super type 1A/B gas giant lol Pick a more mainstream type stellar mass or even a dwarf primary system. no binaries.
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 07:38:48 PM »

Quote
See here is the crux of the matter. If you were to start "running people off" and they were to come and complain against unfair treatment in international zones then we as GC members would have to deal with the matter as part of our policing policy (particularly with IMG who have taken on the roll of a Pirate Policing corp) By having no official claim then you cannot legally "run people off" without the matter being looked at with a dim view bordering on piracy. If, on the other hand, you did have legal claim as acknowledged by our GC charter, then that would enable you to control that system for your own purposes, including killing or "running off" colonists, visitors, explorers etc. and we would be powerless to stop you as we would have signed off on it.
Set up your operations as you see fit and defend it as required, which is open to all pilots and corporations to do so. If you are attacked in that system then you have the right to GC protection as all other pilots/corporations do in the galaxy if they are being raided by acts of piracy, terrorism or vandalism.



That is just it.  Having claim of just 1 planet wouldn't entitle me to run everyone out of the system. Just on that particular planet.


Quote
As to that concept, dont push the system you are in to go Nova by destabilizing its resources. Depending on how nova are introduced of course and whether or not it is just a natural cyclic thing in game or caused by our radid depletion of its resources. If its a natural cycle of life/death then i suspect a nova event will be few and far between as these things are galactically a super rare event. TIP! Dont set up a stronghold around a system that has a binary star system that includes a neutron star companion and a super type 1A/B gas giant lol Pick a more mainstream type stellar mass or even a dwarf primary system. no binaries.


The thing is say you set a stronghold up in a system on a planet.  What is to prevent others from coming in there and rapidly mining/harvesting the resources on the rest of the worlds and causing it to go nova.  It is actually a tactic that could be used to strike blows against people in war times. Let's face it it would be very inconvenient to have to pack up everything that far out and move before it goes nova.  Someone could even do this on purpose in peace times and use the excuse they were just mining and weren't trying to get people to take down large outpost even though that may be their very purpose. With no way to prove it though there would only be so much you can do.
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Dadds
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 04:10:47 PM »

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The thing is say you set a stronghold up in a system on a planet.  What is to prevent others from coming in there and rapidly mining/harvesting the resources on the rest of the worlds and causing it to go nova.  It is actually a tactic that could be used to strike blows against people in war times. Let's face it it would be very inconvenient to have to pack up everything that far out and move before it goes nova.  Someone could even do this on purpose in peace times and use the excuse they were just mining and weren't trying to get people to take down large outpost even though that may be their very purpose. With no way to prove it though there would only be so much you can do.

When Nova comes into effect, AND if you make a claim to a STRONGHOLD (and at this stage i think all corps are entitled or should be entitled, to claim only 1 stronghold in known space) then we as a GC member, will vote and acknowledge a system as being that corp's stronghold. A stronghold is not a tactical orbital position to control an area of space in my terms, it is only a power base for your corporation to feel almost as safe as parking at Sol|Earth. It must be proven beyond normal doubt that this is in fact a stronghold that you intend, for tactical, strategic, or other purposes of scientific, commercial or exploratory, to construct a PERMANENT and PERSISTENT presence in that system. Then, any attempts to destablise that region, be it military or "sapping" to produce a NOVA or other event, can be legally met with reasonable force to prevent that from happening. Those signing to acknowledge a corps claim may be asked to assist in its defence. Those acknowledging the claim AND THEN ATTEMPTING TO DESTABILISE THE ZONE will be immediately branded an outlaw without vote and if they are also a Galactic Council member, will be dismissed immediately from its ranks.
For areas unexplored and outside the known quadrants (that is -4,-4 to 4,4) discovered through wormhole or other means, i would be proposing the discoverer be allowed to claim one system in this area for whatever purposes, to mine, explore or build a launch platform outpost, and by petitioning that claim, make it immediately known to all as to its location and open up the rest of the sector to explorers or colonist/miners. Pirates need not apply 16
Also, no individual claims will be acknowledged for stronghold applications. It must be done from a corporation position. MIneral rights will be acknowledged for those who discover new territories, with maybe a lease expiry placed upon it.
These are my views and as such, likely to be the views of IMG as a whole. My members are always encouraged to question my reasonings of course and are expected to do so from time to time. I cant, however, acknowledge the claiming of systems, or even orbits, to set up your own law enforcement agency for whatever purposes or reasonings, however altruistic at the time. It will nullify what we have built here with the GC, which is a body of corporations self-governing themselves with right/wrong moralities and a method of checks and balances.
The claim over some orbitals at Sol should not be considered a stronghold position in my opinion, but merely marking a territory as a delegate, or embassy, within our homeworld system and as such becomes our sovereign land. A this stage, i envision that only GC members may make such a claim within sol system and be acknowledged.
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Dadds
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