JJL

[Matamaure001]

So many words JJL, as I see it, you can write faster than I can think

[Dadds]

yeah such a dialog, and such an admission of guilt. The fact he is trading information with an outlaw is one.
JamJul wants to win or sacrifice everything, including honour.
Everything i read there just proves my point....thankyou for taking the time to re-iterate everything i am about in the game and in real life. Honour.
That you choose to post PM's between me and you on the forum is against AG rules...seems you forget all the rules JamJul. If or when i feel the need to report that will be now up to me.
As you point out, if i am at war with 1 corp, or 4, it doesnt really matter, since nobody can do any "real" harm....so it doesnt matter how many criminals i declare as targets, really.
The top three corps dont scare or bother me in a fight. Why should any others? Those who choose to weigh in and side with your opinion, in my opinion, are making very silly decisions to do so.
That is freedom of speech i guess. It doesnt change my stance. I stand on my moral grounds. Come and try to move them, if you dare.

The thing is you are acting more like a communist then someone who supports free speech.

Oh, and again.....geee there is that slur and slander again, not to mention political prejudice. I will give you only 1 piece of advice, JamJul. Go sign up to "uncle sam" and get an idea on what is going on in the real world before forming any other prejudices. So far all i see is an armchair "no it all" speaking from an overly irritated and swollen rectum.

[Dadds]

OK now as i promised, onto "the rest"
ITO you are out of line in making any comments about my corp, full stop. Its now why you are considered an outlaw by IMG.

Simply because you founded it doesn't mean you own it

Right. so you dont acknowledge intellectual property where you hail from? Because someone invented something, he doesnt own it? LOL i recommend you recheck whatever laws are relevant there.
You choose to make action and decision in an alliance where there are no allies? LOL It seems both you and JamJul are confused what an alliance is vs a corporation. No doubt you have all been whispering in each others ears. I can spot the sudden decline of IQ points as a result. Take note people, i didnt QUIT the GC as JamJul did. I dissolved it as is my right of call. I am still owner of the GC concept, since every other founding member gave up on it.
Sure give me the crown as public enemy no 1, because the public is the one corrupt and unlawful. I will happily wear that honour. Honour, a word you guys dont understand.
ITO,You are considered as an attempted hijacker of my charter and intel trader to our enemy of IMG information and that holds as the same position as a pirate or thief.

Sargas, of EOS....where are you with your law books? hmmmm seems they only come out when it suits you hey. Bravo'ing a comment from JamJul hours after telling him he has no say here just says one thing, which i have been calling you since the year:dot: HYPOCRITE.
I leave you with yet another few fun quotes, not by me but by someone wise, like me.

Ten gods cannot change the opinion of one fool, especially if another fool agrees with him.

ABRAHAM MILLER, Unmoral Maxims

There is nothing that makes more cowards and feeble men than public opinion.

HENRY WARD BEECHER, Proverbs from Plymouth Pulpit

Few have opinions: fewer still have their own opinions.

IVAN PANIN, Thoughts

;and a final one, another favourite of mine;

Men will die for an opinion as soon as for anything else.

WILLIAM HAZLITT, Characteristics

There is a new combat system coming out in 19 days, I hope you are all ready for it. I am. Prepare to die those who choose to cross me!

[JoolzVern]

A COUNCIL isn't 'property' of ANY sort. Putting a group together doesn't give you any intellectual property. It's not a book or play, it's a council. Perhaps you just need a dictionary or some basic vocabulary lessons as you seem to confuse honor with blind loyalty, and the council as property rather than an bureaucratic entity. Simply drawing up it's charter doesn't mean you own the charter, or club. The charter belongs to the GC which ITO is the only member of for now and as director of the GC, I have the right to keep, modify, or otherwise re-design the charter and any other GC policies etc.

You haven't authority to dissolve the council, only to dissolve your own ties to it which you have, leaving me as the sole council-member, free to accept new corps into the council to re-form it. So yes, you quit just as Jam did. Make-believe all you want that you can dissolve it away, but I am still here and I will revive it if I so choose and you have absolutely zero say or authority on that matter as you forfeited it when you split.

You declared war for no reason other than an opinion you want censored. You know nothing of the concept of honor. He was no longer in the GC so he has no obligations in regards to outlaws but was still personally at war with Raph. But when you declared war in a childish tantrum a truce was formed. Enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

That's what happens in war, Dadds. In declaring war on multiple targets you have united them- something that hadn't occurred previously outside of your paranoid accusations.

[Dadds]

"the charter" is my concept and my charter. Question that with Sir Emi if you feel you want to usurp its ownership.
The real truth stands obvious when i make a call, that all of you yellow, gutless pilots make a pact with an outlaw straight up. I know that pact has been there for some time, in the shadows. Now that you declare a siding of a declared GC criminal, as i expected you would, you have lost, as JamJul did, the values of the GC.
He (Raphael) wont and cant protect you, and you know what else? He wont be bothered to protect you lol.
He couldnt care less if you live or die, as he has his hands full dealing with his own interests.
As i said earlier, you picked the wrong side of the argument to get on, and it is by that amateur decision, you will be dealt with accordingly
Again, you do not or have never seen, a resignation of the IMG to quit the GC. I am its holder and by my request, all member options were removed. You, however, are not even recognised in the charter. You are all a bit mind-befuddled over what it means to dissolve an alliance charter. The GC is dissolved, how hard is that to consider?

[sargas]

...

Sargas, of EOS....where are you with your law books? hmmmm seems they only come out when it suits you hey. Bravo'ing a comment from JamJul hours after telling him he has no say here just says one thing, which i have been calling you since the year:dot: HYPOCRITE.

...

sinced you asked so nicely, Dadds, I will bring out the 'law books'.

The arguement you make for ownership of the GC because you thought it up based upon RL standards is as invalid as when I tried to educate y'all about the legal status of Corporation (Sole) and Corporation (Multi).  I tried the 'this is what its like in the real world' to make my point.  You informed me then that this is a game and not RL, so my arguement was invalid.  And now you try to use the same defense for something you want.  You started the precedent that real world do not apply to the game.

That is why my 'law books' have been gathering dust on my shelves.

[JamJulLison]

The galactic council might have been your original idea.  But it became an official organization within the game.  An organization that ITO was a full member of.  Your the only one who wanted that senior membership crap.  Nothing was ever passed for that.  Hell I don't recall you proposing it even. As a democracy, it would take a majority vote to close down the GC.  Since at the time when war broke out there were only 2 members left, it would take both sides agreeing to shut it down. Which is not what happened.  Dadds that is why you have no right to close it yourself.  The most you can do is leave it.  Yes that makes it a council of 1 and pretty much defunct. But that is the way it is.  You saying it is shut down is would have been like me saying it is shut down before i left.  Just can't be done.  Since you have declared war for a simple matter of an opinion on one corp, then declared war on a fellow GC member for saying he can see how I would see that from my point of view, you might as well have declared war on the GC itself.  By default in my opinion this should automatically remove you from the GC.  The way I see it ITO still has run of the GC and with only ITO needing to vote, they can pretty much pass anything they want now.  Not that it matters most. 

As for me consorting with outlaws.  No communication was made between the two of us until 24 hours after you declared war on my corp.  By that point I was no longer a member of the GC, no longer bound by it's charter, you had already pretty much left the GC and declared war on a GC members and was on the verge of declaring war with EoS. If we were to go by what you said of the GC being gone when you made the declaration of it being disbanded, at that point Raph was no longer an outlaw since there would be no outlaw list without the GC.  I declared our ceasefire shortly after you declared war.  But I didn't even try to contact him until I was certain you wouldn't come to your senses on this.  My original plan before you got all war crazy was to continue going after raph as usual. But thanks to you we know have a new target to represents a much bigger threat to the galaxy. Yes I am talking about you Dadds.  You have always been a little hotheaded and looking for an excuse to fight.  Until Raph came along you kept trying to look for little reasons to even go after us.  When Sargas  became more outspoken you started looking for any little reason you could to go after him.   If anyone has forgot the values of the GC it is you.  It's purpose was to help new players, keep the larger corps in check and to try to promote peace.  But all you have wanted to do is fight.  You act like your high and mighty like you are in the right.  Well your not.   With TGE you could try to use excuses like piracy and stuff. Some might have bought that.  But then you declare war on ITO.  A peaceful corp who's only fault was saying something you didn't like.   Then there is EoS. Yes I have had issues with them from time to time. They have ticked me off some with comments made time to time on the forum.  I have even felt the urge to just find them and blow them up. But other then that one incident at Jupiter over a stolen mod,  I have resisted the urge to do so.  I have not flipped my lid and declared war.    Raph may have come in here telling he would blow up Sol and all this other junk.  But at least he isn't trying to hide behind some high non-existent morality like you are doing Dadds. 


As to me posting PMs up here.  I always thought that was a really dumb rule. Especially because in situations like this PMs should be allowed for evidence.  I know it doesn't exactly show you in the best of light. But that isn't my problem. Your the one showing just what kind of a person you are.  No one here is trying to make you look like the bad guy either.  Your doing a very good job of that on your own.

[Matamaure001]

To set things strait, you are not the only one to asked Sir Emi to take care of the GC; Below is the request I sent him and his answer.

******************************************
Astro Galaxy Support
25-Mar-2014 16:04
Re: GC

Hello,

Council members have been dismissed until further notice.


The board will be set to invisible in the next few days, to be recalled if there is a need for it in the future.


Thank you.

Sir Emi, AG Support


 
Add to ignore list  
Replied to message:
Hi,

I would like your help regarding the GC.

JJL and Dadds and their respective corp have drop out of the GC (numerous post on the forum). They should be removed from the moderator list and should have no power anymore in the GC.

Dadds also want the GC to be removed. He has no right to to so since there is still the corp ITO active in the GC. Also our corp EoS as tried to get membership for many months now. We want to help the GC. We beleive in it.

As a cofounder of the GC, I ask your help to let only the leader of ITO with power in the GC.

Please help us, please do not let the GC die

Matamaure (a dedicate player and supporter of AG)

*****************************************
As you can read, the GC is not dead yet. It can die if nobody care about it but it can also live if we group together and want to keep it. Us at EoS want to keep the GC. It's charter will need to be improve. With all the goodwill captains I am sure we will be able to fix it and make it usefull.

By the way, Dadds, does Sir Emi answered your request and if so you could share it with us.

Best Regards fellow captains,

Captain Matamaure

[JoolzVern]

Ok Dadds, so you think that if when you become founding member of a COUNCIL and help construct a charter, that you own the charter and/or the organization?

No, you did this on behalf of the council and own the charter no more than the president owns a law. It's not your intellectual copyright, simply because you made it.

In real life, you would be laughed at for even suggesting that you own the charter for an organization which you made it for.

Every time you open your mouth I am further amazed, Dadds. Amazed at your paranoia, your distorted fantasy in which I or Jam is siding with an outlaw and so on. Jam doesn't trust Raph any more than you do and I haven't spoken to him since he declared war on ITO -outside the forum. The only outlaw here is the hothead that wants Jam to censor his objective opinion, act like it's a personal attack, and declare war on anyone that tells him he's over reacting.

I think you just wanted an excuse for war and the GC was in your way so you get it shut down.

You usually aren't like this but now everything you say says to me I should remind you

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
-Mark Twain

[raphael]

He (Raphael) wont and cant protect you, and you know what else? He wont be bothered to protect you lol.
He couldnt care less if you live or die, as he has his hands full dealing with his own interests.

True, I can't be bothered to protect them, but if they give me info where I can improve the score to 3:0 (yes, of course you are the one with ZERO score), I will take it, and I will send all the necessary ships and spend a billion solars just to achieve it. You seem to forget that you killing you is part of my interest, brat. 

[sargas]

as far as the foul regarding the PM message reporting is concerned, you need to snitch right away and don't hold it over someone's head (i.e. you better do what I say or I'm telling Mom.  That's really childish, don't you think?).

JamJul, your comments are spot on.

Dadds, you might have dreamed about a council during one of your drunken debacles, but if you do not have verifiable copyright (dated before June 20, 2013), your arguement is dismissed as not being a legal copyright.  

The charter was hammered out by Aysle (IMG), Goodperson (NHC), JamJulLison (PMI), and myself (PMI).  If you have a previous claim, show it.

Otherwise, please stay quiet on the subject of ownership.



(edit to provide copyright law information, now that Dadds has asked me to dust off my 'law books')

[Dadds]

The charter was hammered out by Aysle (IMG), Goodperson (NHC), JamJulLison (PMI), and myself (PMI).  If you have a previous claim, show it.

Right, and Aysle never once consulted his corporation leader on its concept, what should be added or amended before he took it to PMI and NHC? lol you guys amaze me. Who do you think is in charge over here anyway? The charter was first suggested (intellectual property) by me. Aysle, my team mate and 2IC drew up a draft, which I amended and critiqued upon, before PMI even saw it. It is the work of IMG as was the request to Sir Emi to give us forum space to take away our side-line role playing. We had initially built an offnet forum to do this, but Sir Emi graciously gave us a spot here where we can "chew the cud" without annoying all the other users of our tedious discussions, of which this is a momentous one.
Aysle did a heck of a lot of work on it, and he was given the position by me as rep to reward that work. Aysle is still a loyal member of IMG, and as corporate rule goes, that which is built, created, invented, written, performed, for a corp, belongs to a corp. Looking around here, i am still wearing the leadership insignia.
i can certainly present drafts and dialog via mail dating back to the year dot. It will be presented when (and should i deem it) necessary.

as far as the foul regarding the PM message reporting is concerned, you need to snitch right away and don't hold it over someone's head (i.e. you better do what I say or I'm telling Mom.  That's really childish, don't you think?).

What you see as childish is actually a mature pointing out of an error which the reader and offender can apologize to, before it goes to the next level. I guess you guys dont have the concept of fair go and fair play and give someone a chance to redeem themselves....or you dont hold it in high esteem.

The charter was hammered out by Aysle (IMG), Goodperson (NHC), JamJulLison (PMI), and myself (PMI).  If you have a previous claim, show it.

As i recall it, you were a 3rd person who had a cry about not being included in the first signing so we had to allow 3 reps within PMI to have a say, instead of 2, which was considered fair and suitable.
As usual, PMI had to have more numbers on their side or they would whine.

[JamJulLison]

Right, and Aysle never once consulted his corporation leader on its concept, what should be added or amended before he took it to PMI and NHC? lol you guys amaze me. Who do you think is in charge over here anyway? The charter was first suggested (intellectual property) by me. Aysle, my team mate and 2IC drew up a draft, which I amended and critiqued upon, before PMI even saw it. It is the work of IMG as was the request to Sir Emi to give us forum space to take away our side-line role playing. We had initially built an offnet forum to do this, but Sir Emi graciously gave us a spot here where we can "chew the cud" without annoying all the other users of our tedious discussions, of which this is a momentous one.
Aysle did a heck of a lot of work on it, and he was given the position by me as rep to reward that work. Aysle is still a loyal member of IMG, and as corporate rule goes, that which is built, created, invented, written, performed, for a corp, belongs to a corp. Looking around here, i am still wearing the leadership insignia.
i can certainly present drafts and dialog via mail dating back to the year dot. It will be presented when (and should i deem it) necessary.

Much of the original draft was rewritten by me if I recall when we worked on the charter.  We still got the messages in our forums as well.  You were not the first to have had this idea either. It is just before you came along we felt that if we did this people would think the big boys were trying to push them around.  After you we agreed to the possibility of it to help keep IMG and the other larger corps in check.   Fact is though just as much effort was put into writing and rewriting this by us that you can't take the sole claim for it all. Yes you were the last original member left in the GC. But that doesn't mean you had seniority either. We never agreed to a seniority system. ITO had full rights as IMG.   IMG did not have the authority to close the GC or dissolve it.  All IMG could do was leave the Galactic Council which to me seems exactly what you guys did when you declared war on your allies in ITO.   The Charter is a set of guidelines and rules for the GC to follow.  The GC is an organization. Almost like a government make up of multiple corps.  The Council itself is not owned by anyone.  There for the Charter itself does not belong to anyone.   By leaving the GC of course ITO is the sole member and can't fully function as intended. But that simply means at the most the GC is put on inactive mode.  That does not mean it is gone unless the majority (which is ITO right now) says it is.

As i recall it, you were a 3rd person who had a cry about not being included in the first signing so we had to allow 3 reps within PMI to have a say, instead of 2, which was considered fair and suitable.
As usual, PMI had to have more numbers on their side or they would whine.

This was only due to the fact that we had a mining and navy division. So both the corp leader and the division leaders needed a say in it.  For that matter I would have accepted the opinion of everyone in the corp on weighing in on it. 

[Dadds]

You were not the first to have had this idea either.

Yeah, and i had the idea of the wheel also, until some caveman came across and actually built it....we built it and it happened because of the 1st PMI wars. End of history lesson.

Much of the original draft was rewritten by me if I recall when we worked on the charter.

Your recollection is flawed, as usual. Go ahead and show me this draft that you "re-wrote" and i will show you a carbon copy of what was submitted to you, excluding minor blemishes

After you we agreed to the possibility of it to help keep IMG and the other larger corps in check.

LOL IMG is a non aggressive, mining corp, or was, until you came around trying to push weight around. Not one pilot in the system had anything to fear from us then....You are adopting the reasoning for the GC in the first place. To keep pirates under a ruling so they didnt do what they tried to do to me and later to IMG. The GC was to keep your actions to a minimum.....we as a corp have never attacked miners or pilots during those times, so "keeping us in check" was not as necessary as "keeping pirate activities in check"

Fact is though just as much effort was put into writing and rewriting this by us that you can't take the sole claim for it all. Yes you were the last original member left in the GC. But that doesn't mean you had seniority either.

I wholly acknowledge it was a pledge formed between 3 corporations, with the hope it will be adopted and accepted by others. You walked away from your pledge. NHC got bored of their pledge and drifted out of the galaxy. When you voiced your opinion about dissolving the GC once before, i advised that was a bad idea. After you chose to anyway, that left an ineffective governance. The GC was always based on a 3 vote + system. You reduced that to a 2 vote by your actions. Also, you know for a fact that i was considering changing the structure of the GC to include a chairperson, voted in as mediator to the council. You pushed to get rid of the NHC, and then you chose to quit also, blaming my inability to govern, rather than stating your own desire to return to pirating the sol system. You have quit and gone against the Galactic Charter, so you can no longer hold any claim to it.
Oh, and BTW, you cant have a majority of one on a council lol Just rename it something appropriate, like Regime, or Dictatorship, or Autocracy. Even with 2 members, with the 1 vote system, cannot work so i called for a dissolution. I am still very much a part of the GC concept and its existence.

[JamJulLison]

Here is an original copy that was first sent to us by your number 2. 


1st Galactic Council Charter

As an alliance of the chosen (hehe I like how that sounds) we agree to promote the growth of our fellow Captains in all Corps that aspire to grow with honor.

As such a council of the "three" is to be formed. The Galactic Council hence forth referred to as the 'GC' will handle all complaints and disagreements between Captains when called upon.

1. All issues must be brought to the attention of the GC via the public forums by the complainant. Supporting documentation in the form of Battle Reports and PMs must be posted so that the GC may evaluate the situation and deem a proper response.

2. The agreement of the majority shall hold the rule of law threw-out the Galaxy.

3. Players deemed "outlaws" shall be added to the GC KOS list. Reprisals shall be on the order of 5 to 1. All outlaw holdings are valid targets for raiding or destruction.

4. In extreme cases of destruction or repeated (5x) rulings concerning the same aggressor the Corp that harbors the "outlaw" after fair warning (5 days) shall be deemed accessories after the fact and all raiding upon said Corp's holdings shall be fair game to encourage said Corp to rectify the situation.

5. Each Corp's GC representative shall be authorized to appoint a Corp member to perform a single retaliatory strike upon an aggressor. So long as said aggressor is NOT a member of a GC Corp and when time is of the essence. Notification of the attack and the reasoning behind said attack with supporting documentation shall be posted ASAP to the GC forum along with the battle report.
6.1 The GC shall take up the matter and a vote shall take place whether the retaliatory strike was warranted. If the strike was deemed unnecessary the Corp that performed the strike shall provide recompense via a module transfer with a minimum value of $500k. If the targets losses were greater the value of the recompense shall be 2x the losses.


6. Additions to the GC shall be considered by petition of any Corp that reaches 10 million total power. Inclusion in the GC will be at the discretion of the GC. A vote will take place and the majority shall rule. The new GC member Corp must agree to all terms of GC charter.

7. The GC charter may be amended via a majority vote of GC members.
Amendments concerning attacks, raiding, or addition to the GC KOS list require a super majority (75%) to be achieved.

8. Each Corp member of the GC may appoint it's own representative to the GC. The representative may be changed via notice of said Corp's leader.

LOL IMG is a non aggressive, mining corp, or was, until you came around trying to push weight around. Not one pilot in the system had anything to fear from us then....You are adopting the reasoning for the GC in the first place. To keep pirates under a ruling so they didnt do what they tried to do to me and later to IMG. The GC was to keep your actions to a minimum.....we as a corp have never attacked miners or pilots during those times, so "keeping us in check" was not as necessary as "keeping pirate activities in check"

All we did was inform you of our intentions on one person who had declared war on us and then joining your corp. It would have been solved peacefully if you would have had him apologize for cussing me out and recend that declaration of war.  If you had truly wanted peace then that is what you would have done. It wasn't unreasonable.  You are the ones who at first jumped up saying if we were going to go after him  (despite it being his fault the situation was even there), that we would have to fight all of you.  Yes both sides got hot headed.  I had issues keeping my people under control on the forum just as you did. But I tried to remain calm and work things out. But you made it very difficult and it reached a point where there was no going back and war was to come.  The GC was created to keep us all in check but you were the primary one we were worried about.  NHC didn't worry about us flying off the handle and possibly turning on them to wipe them out.  Yes some of them did worry about that.  Your actions on the forums showed us that you tend to fly off the handle at times.  Yes you were weaker in the beginning. By the end of the war we saw how you all had grown and knew if you ever flew off the handle again that you could very well declared on war on pretty much everyone in the game.  It seems now though they what we thought might happen has happened now.  Thanks for proving us right though.

I wholly acknowledge it was a pledge formed between 3 corporations, with the hope it will be adopted and accepted by others. You walked away from your pledge. NHC got bored of their pledge and drifted out of the galaxy. When you voiced your opinion about dissolving the GC once before, i advised that was a bad idea. After you chose to anyway, that left an ineffective governance. The GC was always based on a 3 vote + system. You reduced that to a 2 vote by your actions. Also, you know for a fact that i was considering changing the structure of the GC to include a chairperson, voted in as mediator to the council. You pushed to get rid of the NHC, and then you chose to quit also, blaming my inability to govern, rather than stating your own desire to return to pirating the sol system. You have quit and gone against the Galactic Charter, so you can no longer hold any claim to it.
Oh, and BTW, you cant have a majority of one on a council lol Just rename it something appropriate, like Regime, or Dictatorship, or Autocracy. Even with 2 members, with the 1 vote system, cannot work so i called for a dissolution. I am still very much a part of the GC concept and its existence.

Once again you claim the reason I left is because I wanted to return to pirating.  Something I haven't really done.  Removing a few inactives does not qualify as that.  If I had returned to my old ways I would be hitting all of sol almost daily and when not hitting that I would be hitting other systems in 0,0.  Something I also haven't been doing.  I left the GC because I felt IMG wasn't performing it's duties in the GC correctly.  When I wanted to dissolve the GC that was one of the reasons I wanted to do it.  This has been a long standing issue. Now it isn't your fault your rep kept going inactive, but as leader you should have removed him as your rep and either appointed someone else or yourself as rep. But you didn't. Not to mention you didn't check the GC board very often.  As for pushing to get rid of NHC.  You wanted to get rid of them just as much as I did.   I agree we can't have a majority of 1.  But that only means it is inactive until either Joolz says it is gone or he is able to reform it.  If it is indeed still yours, then not only did you spit on the GC itself when you turned on your fellow GC member but you also have severely disgraced the GC itself.  It would also mean that there would still be 2 and that the GC itself is in a civil war.  You can't just close it down. Yes you talked about a possible chairperson position but nothing was ever really passed on that.  Most discussion about that wasn't even done on the forum.  Yes I can't take any claim to the charter now but neither can you.  It is a charter belonging to the GC.  So either you have left the GC when you declared war on ITO or The Council is in a Civil war.  You don't have authority to dissolve it.  So which is it dadds?   Either way the charter itself can't be said for you to own it alone.  Just as you don't own the GC itself.