Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
  March 28, 2024, 09:55:28 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 11
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: COM missions drop over existing COM  (Read 78981 times)
JamJulLison
First Sergeant
*

Reputation: +55/-44
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710



View Profile
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2015, 12:01:17 AM »

I have found SPQNR members have a bad habit of dropping COMs on people.  Today marks the 2nd time in two months that I know for sure they have dropped COMs on me. First it was torh.  Today it was Marcus Cruoningus.  I am not going to tolerate this anymore.  Those I find drop COMs on me are going to get a revenge hit back if I find one of their ships and can hit it.  I will not destroy any planetary or orbital structures belonging to them though.  I also won't hunt them down. But if I run into them and can take the ship, you can bet your butt I am going to hit it.  Both people claimed it was an accident. But that is awfully coincidental. Not to mention looking at some of the more recent messages on here others have been dealing with people doing the same thing.  I don't do it. As far as I know my people don't do it. I don't think anyone in EoS does it. We know those others aren't raph because it would be fairly obvious by the power of the ships who did it if he did it.  So the most likely people doing it are either in SPQNR or SSS and with recent experiences I would guess probably SPQNR. No offense Rostin.  It is just the track record I am starting to notice with your people and I don't like it.
Report to moderator   Logged
Raptor
Sergeant First Class
*

Reputation: +185/-25
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


ƒuck it, Scorched Earth it is, SirEmi


View Profile
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2015, 02:38:48 AM »

Listen up mate, I gave you a FULL explanation of what happened, and certainly didn't try to hide it. I also offered you FULL compensation. Instead, you went into the paranoid b*tch mode that has become your trademark in AG. Later today, I'll ask the UC, which both TGE and SPQNR are part of, to offer their $0.02 on the matter. That may prevent unnecessary escalation.
Report to moderator   Logged
Merkaba
Private
*

Reputation: +5/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


View Profile
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2015, 06:08:38 AM »

yeah really "two" people.  One Torh, it was his first day doing coms ever, you couldnt handle the 1M power added?

Also, you said you were not going to attack planets eh?  I have seen Torh battle report of you attacking and looting his planet.  Care to explain that?

I myself dropped a hijacker ontop of a SSS member on accident my first day of coms.  I looked only saw one ship, and I saw looters everywhere, i didnt notice the hijackers in there as well.  I learned a single ship can hold both mission types  open and to look more carefully.  He didnt complain and thanked me for letting him know.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 06:18:48 AM by Merkaba » Report to moderator   Logged
Rostin
Sergeant First Class
*

Reputation: +64/-10
Offline Offline

Posts: 585


Conquer the Stars!


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2015, 07:04:59 AM »

I have found SPQNR members have a bad habit of dropping COMs on people.  Today marks the 2nd time in two months that I know for sure they have dropped COMs on me. First it was torh.  Today it was Marcus Cruoningus.  I am not going to tolerate this anymore.  Those I find drop COMs on me are going to get a revenge hit back if I find one of their ships and can hit it.  I will not destroy any planetary or orbital structures belonging to them though.  I also won't hunt them down. But if I run into them and can take the ship, you can bet your butt I am going to hit it.  Both people claimed it was an accident. But that is awfully coincidental. Not to mention looking at some of the more recent messages on here others have been dealing with people doing the same thing.  I don't do it. As far as I know my people don't do it. I don't think anyone in EoS does it. We know those others aren't raph because it would be fairly obvious by the power of the ships who did it if he did it.  So the most likely people doing it are either in SPQNR or SSS and with recent experiences I would guess probably SPQNR. No offense Rostin.  It is just the track record I am starting to notice with your people and I don't like it.
Maybe it's because we're the only corp that gives new players the opportunities to access COMs early on? Look at how big SPQNR is and what the average power rating is. We're giving chances to players who would normally have to work by themselves for months to get offered. There is a learning curve to this game James; I suggest you respect it, show patience, and let people learn this game without treating them like crap.
Report to moderator   Logged

Join the Solar Enterprises corporation today!
torh
Private
*

Reputation: +7/-5
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



View Profile
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2015, 07:56:27 AM »

as merkaba said in one of the above messages that it was one of my first coms i have ever done ( if i remember correctly is was in fact the second and i was honest and agmited my mistake by sending you a message  if  i did it on purpose that would be really dum
and i was willing to let you attack one of my ships in a fair fight ( meaning between to ships which have shields and weapons )  but you attacked a mining ship which had no weapons or defenses.
 on a further note i also offered you to compensate you with QP at the time for your inconvinience but you refused  i also explained to you why a player as old as me ( account number 274) dumb rookie mistakes but i will do that here agian so no one can say i didnt

i started playing this game in very early as is evedent from my player number 274   i was a member of the EIMC (east indi mining corporation) of which in my later days i became corp leader however i went on hiatus because i had lost interest in the game and had other things to contend with in real life which where more important than a game. i did however recenly return after i by accident found my password and username again on one of my usb drives. upon my return i discovered a message from SPQNR inviting me to join as by this time more than  a year and a half had past and my corp whas effectively dead i took the offer which brought me to My current corp.

this incedent happend while i was running com signals for the very first time with a com ship granted to me by the corperation in my inexperiance i dropped the com on you cause i forgot to check orbit first which was a rookie mistake.


 in your message at the top of this page you say I will not destroy any planetary or orbital structures belonging to them though
however you did in fact attack planetary instalations  as proven in the  post below

Attacker opened fire!

Wave 1 - Primary forces (Weapons & Boarding)

Jam COM #4 Vs. Orion
Weapons assault
Jam COM #4 maneuvers into fire range and attacks first.
Jam COM #4 attacks with Viper Squadron MK CC using standard formation.
Excellent hit on target, doing 161487 damage!
EMERGENCY JUMP!
Orion has retreated from the battlefield due to heavy damage!
Orion lost some cargo while executing the emergency jump...
Jam COM #4 searching for dumped cargo...
117 m3 Brass, 408 m3 Chromium, 258 m3 Kamacite, 260 m3 Cupalite, 19 m3 Cabriite scooped into cargo bay.

Wave 2 - Primary forces (Weapons flyby)

Wave 3 - Protected forces (Weapons & Boarding)

Jam COM #4 Vs. torh planetary force
Weapons assault
Jam COM #4 maneuvers into fire range and attacks first.
Jam COM #4 attacks with Viper Squadron MK CC using standard formation.
Minor hit on target, doing 45066 damage!
torh planetary force has been defeated!
Adv Mining facility Mk III was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 11 m3 of Copper to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 4 m3 of Cupalite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 4 m3 of Cupalite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 6 m3 of Chromium to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 8 m3 of Taenite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Kamacite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 1 m3 of Taenite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk III was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 14 m3 of Copper to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Chromium to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 4 m3 of Cupalite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Nickel to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Module is not mining. Nothing to loot!
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Chromium to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Copper to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Kamacite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 4 m3 of Cupalite to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 8 m3 of Copper to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk I was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Brass to ship cargo bay.
Mining facility Mk VII was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Copper to ship cargo bay.
Mining facility Mk VII was looted.
Jam COM #4 loaded 7 m3 of Copper to ship cargo bay.
Adv Mining facility Mk II was looted.
Module is not mining. Nothing to loot!

Objective: Defeat the opponent primary & protected forces.
 
Attacker victory!

the facts ramain that you attacked a ship and installation which in no way shape or form could defend its self

kind regards
torh
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 08:51:36 AM by torh » Report to moderator   Logged

Fenix
Sergeant
*

Reputation: +7/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 182



View Profile
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2015, 12:54:08 PM »

I've been kinda inactive because of MH4U and stuff but here is my thoughts...

First of all I'm sure Jam can handle the small power increases from these coms so that isn't the issue. The issue is that it can be a big problem for others and it really needs to not happen.

Secondly, I can understand where you are coming from Rostin, though I don't think your corp having more noobs has to do with anything other than you recruiting more than anyone else. Personally I can accept this as having been an accident, however twice in a relatively short period of time (for this game anyway) is the start of a patern. I would ask that Rostin and the rest of the folks over there redouble your efforts to teach your new players to look before they leap so to speak. It's your business if you want to take in as many new players as possible and it's your business how you teach them but if they continue making mistakes like this then sooner or later the entire collective of SPQNR is going to be held responsible for annoying the rest of us with this sort of thing you know what I mean? People can only take so much before they say enough is enough. I'm personally fine right now but Jam is one of the bigger players that is more spread out and really sees how often this sort of thing happens so I can understand him starting to really get tired of it.

Torh, you didn't give a date for that attack so was it before or after Jam posted that message? I didn't ask him specifically (or if I did I don't remember) what went on between the two of you but I remember him at least implying that you two have a history when your name was brought up in the corp board. I would assume his attack on your mining facilities might be a product of more than just one com you dropped on him.

Anywho, lets not make a habit of having to have these discussions. All we have to do is not drop coms on each other and this won't be a problem anymore.
Report to moderator   Logged

"Hear me! And if I close my mind in fear, please pry it open.
See me! And if my face becomes sincere beware.
Hold me! And when I start to come undone, stitch me together.
See me! And when you see me strut remind me of what left this outlaw torn..."
Raptor
Sergeant First Class
*

Reputation: +185/-25
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


ƒuck it, Scorched Earth it is, SirEmi


View Profile
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2015, 01:01:17 PM »

I think it needs to be seen in the perspective of the number of COMs going on at any given time (1000+). Statistically, it's INEVITABLE someone f*cks up at some stage. Some people love to make a mountain out of a molehill though.

Especially given the detailled explanation I offered Jam in private, before being forced to take it public here: http://unitedcorporations.freeforums.net/thread/29/uc-representatives-opinion-requested
Then, all of a sudden, the "pattern" consists of a n00bs mistake and genuine mistake by an only slightly more established player. It has happened before (TO us as well I might add!), it will happen again, despite our best efforts, and almost everyone else takes these things as an unfortunate part of the game. Only mr. JJL makes it look like we deserve to be brought before the International Court of Justice.
Report to moderator   Logged
Fenix
Sergeant
*

Reputation: +7/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 182



View Profile
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2015, 01:34:44 PM »

This is true Raptor there are a lot of coms going on I'm sure. Still I don't see it as too difficult to make the habit of checking orbit before you even look in your cargo bay to start a mission. Idk what your situation was, I'll check it later since I'm multi-tasking a few too many things atm, but unless someone ninja'd you and got into orbit and dropped a mission between when you checked orbit and dropped your mission I can't really see what circumstances would allow an established player to not see another persons mission going on before they put theirs down.

As for how Jam is taking it, I can't speak to that too much but I would say this. There is that whole saying "the straw that broke the camels back" that comes to my mind when I look at this situation. Idk about you but I don't know what is going on in Jam's life atm so for all I know he is just really stressed out right now or tired of how things are going here on AG (mainly a lack of the updates we've been wanting for like forever) and then one thing happens and he needs to vent a bit. All I can say is it happens, it might not be fair to certain people but we all do it even if we try not to.
Report to moderator   Logged

"Hear me! And if I close my mind in fear, please pry it open.
See me! And if my face becomes sincere beware.
Hold me! And when I start to come undone, stitch me together.
See me! And when you see me strut remind me of what left this outlaw torn..."
torh
Private
*

Reputation: +7/-5
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



View Profile
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2015, 03:10:30 PM »

I've been kinda inactive because of MH4U and stuff but here is my thoughts...

First of all I'm sure Jam can handle the small power increases from these coms so that isn't the issue. The issue is that it can be a big problem for others and it really needs to not happen.

Secondly, I can understand where you are coming from Rostin, though I don't think your corp having more noobs has to do with anything other than you recruiting more than anyone else. Personally I can accept this as having been an accident, however twice in a relatively short period of time (for this game anyway) is the start of a patern. I would ask that Rostin and the rest of the folks over there redouble your efforts to teach your new players to look before they leap so to speak. It's your business if you want to take in as many new players as possible and it's your business how you teach them but if they continue making mistakes like this then sooner or later the entire collective of SPQNR is going to be held responsible for annoying the rest of us with this sort of thing you know what I mean? People can only take so much before they say enough is enough. I'm personally fine right now but Jam is one of the bigger players that is more spread out and really sees how often this sort of thing happens so I can understand him starting to really get tired of it.

Torh, you didn't give a date for that attack so was it before or after Jam posted that message? I didn't ask him specifically (or if I did I don't remember) what went on between the two of you but I remember him at least implying that you two have a history when your name was brought up in the corp board. I would assume his attack on your mining facilities might be a product of more than just one com you dropped on him.

Anywho, lets not make a habit of having to have these discussions. All we have to do is not drop coms on each other and this won't be a problem anymore.

i have taken step to prevent this from happening again in my case by making a step by step protocol that i try to follow
1. pick up multiple coms 
2. fly to closest system holding at least 2 coms in the ship at diffrent planets   and fully scout it
3. if the planet in the com has any ship in orbit i avoid it and move on to my second option if both planets have coms running i avoid the system for 72 hours and check again and find an other system where i fullow the same patern ( for jll i have made the special protocol of avoiding the entire system for a week unless intel tells me he has moved) ( the week rule is not in effect in systems where i or spqnr have a base )

i have no idea what history you are inpling i dont remember ever meeting JLL before the 'incedent'  if we did meet before that that would have had to be more than 1.5 years ago because as i stated before i was on hiatus  in which case he holds a really long grudge
but if so i invite him to pm me and talk it out  ( if this is about the fact that some members of my previous corp taking actions in the PMI vs img war (i found some post's i dont remember exactly where)  i was not active at the time and if i was i would have taken action at that time but i wasnt so if i am on to something talk it out with me)
i also did not drop more than one com on him as stated above i  took special protocol to ensure it doesnt happen again

 

This is true Raptor there are a lot of coms going on I'm sure. Still I don't see it as too difficult to make the habit of checking orbit before you even look in your cargo bay to start a mission. Idk what your situation was, I'll check it later since I'm multi-tasking a few too many things atm, but unless someone ninja'd you and got into orbit and dropped a mission between when you checked orbit and dropped your mission I can't really see what circumstances would allow an established player to not see another persons mission going on before they put theirs down.

As for how Jam is taking it, I can't speak to that too much but I would say this. There is that whole saying "the straw that broke the camels back" that comes to my mind when I look at this situation. Idk about you but I don't know what is going on in Jam's life atm so for all I know he is just really stressed out right now or tired of how things are going here on AG (mainly a lack of the updates we've been wanting for like forever) and then one thing happens and he needs to vent a bit. All I can say is it happens, it might not be fair to certain people but we all do it even if we try not to.

i can understand that Jam may be having a tough time but that is no reason to have this situation escalate everyone has difficult times in life and i hope it gets better for him but that is not something we can change so dont act out your anger on us 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:21:27 PM by torh » Report to moderator   Logged

Raptor
Sergeant First Class
*

Reputation: +185/-25
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


ƒuck it, Scorched Earth it is, SirEmi


View Profile
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2015, 03:21:34 PM »

Idk what your situation was


Jam was doing a hijacker, I had both a hijacker AND a looter for that location. Started only the looter because I KNEW JJL was doing a hijacker, and when I woke up at 4 A.M. to the Open Fire command and killed the station, I wanted to collect my reward. THAT is where I accidentally dropped the hijacker instead of collecting the reward on the looter. On mobile btw, which probably wasn't very smart when still half asleep, but hey, we're all human.

I immediately informed him of it and offered compensation, but he choose to go bitchy on me instead. Two can play THAT game. The days of JJL bullying people around are over.
Report to moderator   Logged
Raptor
Sergeant First Class
*

Reputation: +185/-25
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


ƒuck it, Scorched Earth it is, SirEmi


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2015, 03:23:49 PM »

Btw, this is the same JJL who attacked me for no reason when I was still in the Academy. Our self-appointed galactic janitor as he was referred to at the time.
Report to moderator   Logged
josephine_r
Private
*

Reputation: +4/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 7



View Profile
« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2015, 04:51:25 PM »

What is this fussing?
When you get COM mission, is ALWAYS easy to win.  No challenge. Are you always wanting to win every battle? Where is the happy times, what story do you have to remember, why do you play?
When somebody drop COM on you, it make a challenge. It make life interesting.
I have less than 2M power ship. I have COM drop on me at Capella/Alpha. Odds change 9:7 to 4:15. I press open fire, then I jump back from safe zone and attack again. Then I win. Then I replace lost crew. Now I tell story. Game is fun.
Yes, nice If not happen. Yes, nice if one who drop is polite and say what did. If not, so what? You are not hurt. You lose time - in this game everything is wait wait wait. What is little more time? What is fuss?
Report to moderator   Logged

When I walk towards an object, it is necessary first that I should will to go there, and, in the second place, that my feet should carry me. (JJR)

JamJulLison
First Sergeant
*

Reputation: +55/-44
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710



View Profile
« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2015, 07:36:03 PM »

Concerning the Torh situation.  I consider that settled now. I jumped his cargo ship yesterday.  This was after the message from Raptor of course. Torh never did offer me a chance to face one of his COM ships though. I never actively sought him out. I happened to run into him where I was doing a COM. I saw his ship and his mines.  I could have destroyed his advanced mines there but I did not. I kept to my word about not destroying any of his mines/stations.  I told him when the incident happened what I would do if I saw one of his ships.  It is probably better for him it was just a mining ship. It will be cheaper to replace the crew on it then it might be had I trashed one of his COM ships. 


As for Raptor. He of all people should know better then to drop COMs. Especially on one his corp had an agreement with.  Did I hit him in his early days. I may have. I honestly don't remember. But hell I haven't been doing much in the way of janitor in a long time.  That was also before any sort of agreement was ever made. Fact is he should have watched what he was doing.  I haven't hit him yet though. I won't be actively hunting him either. But If I see a ship of his I can hit, I will hit it.


It is time people learn to check where they drop their COMs.  Obviously NAPs or any other sort of agreement that says not to drop COMs just isn't going to work. People are still getting COMs dropped on them.  It isn't just me it is happening to. It is happening to other players as well. So perhaps a nice kick in the  butt will work to teach people to watch what their doing.  It sure seems to be working with Torh now.  People may not like my methods but if it gets the proper results then so be it.   

As for the UC.  TGE is officially out of the UC now. I would like to keep my established NAPs in place and use the UC terms as NAP terms.  But I refuse to change my policy now on people laying COMs on me.  If Rostin or one of his cronies wish to come after me for what I am doing then feel free to.  Just leave the rest of my members out of it.  This is a personal policy of mine. Not a TGE policy.  Whether or not the COMs made things harder or not isn't the point at all.  It is the principal of the matter.  It is disrespectful to lay COMs on other people and can possibly interfere with the operations.  Rostin my advice to you is teach your people better.  Ensure they know to look first.   BTW your not the only player that takes in newer players. New players are always welcome in my Corp and we do provide Corp ships for them to use for COMs.  So far I haven't heard from anyone about any of my people laying COMs on others. Of course I do try to educate my people to watch where they are dropping COMs.
Report to moderator   Logged
JoolzVern
Sergeant
*

Reputation: +13/-10
Offline Offline

Posts: 223


Nobody ever listens to Tim the wizard...


View Profile WWW
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2015, 07:40:12 PM »

I think part of the issue that's being missed is that Jam tries to hold himself to a high standard, and that includes holding his corp to a high standard as well. When he agrees they are not to drop coms at TGE, and he tells his guys not to do so, he tries to make sure they understand and will comply. When there's multiple violations of agreements to that effect and they are coming from the same corp that says something about that corp. I'm the same way, so if it were me I'd be wondering why you expect me to let your guys do something I wouldn't tolerate my guys doing and for which I would expect to be retaliated against.

Sure, you can make excuses about how they accept so many new guys(Raptor's not very new) so it's inevitable and how we need to just tolerate their handing powerful ships to new guys without giving them proper orientation and training but at the end of the day guys like Jam, (and myself) see Rostin as 'dropping the ball' in this area, compromising the corps standards to achieve his ambitious goals(like giving new guys com ships prematurely).

That said, mistakes happen and that may not be grounds for dissolving a NAP but if it violates that NAP then I see no reason to argue against retaliation to equalize the violation.

There's nothing wrong with giving a new guy a com ship but in my experience it's never wise to do so as a matter of course. Give them one when they're ready be it day one or day 300. When are they ready? When you've given them as much of that orientation/training as they need to avoid such mistakes and they want a com ship.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 08:02:24 PM by JoolzVern » Report to moderator   Logged

offnow.org <-Stop the NSSA's subversion of your security
Prism-Break.org <-Ways to secure your data as much as possible
EFF.org <-Electronic Frontier Foundation
Stopkillerrobots.org <-Stop autonomous drones designed to hunt people
Rostin
Sergeant First Class
*

Reputation: +64/-10
Offline Offline

Posts: 585


Conquer the Stars!


View Profile
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2015, 08:00:53 PM »

Oh the great JoolzVern graces us with his presence once again!

Listen here you two, I tell my guys and gals every time we introduce them to COMs about how pirates stack on each other and how they NEED to check orbit before they launch an attack. It's not like Marcus did it out of ignorance, he simply misclicked. torh has been forced to learn the hard way, which is from a retaliatory attack, which in no way matched the severity of his mistake. James you are using these two mistakes as a convenient front to attack members of a peaceful corporation and it is unacceptable. And how can you say James holds his corporation to a higher standard when SPQNR is on track to surpass TGE in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF THE GAME IN THE NEAR FUTURE?

The propensity for their to be more slip ups from my corp MAY BE because we have almost twice as many members as any other corporation and most of those members have started doing COMs. You are noticing a "trend" from ONE individual (torh) who made a mistake (Marcus should not count because a misclick is different from ignorance of COM etiquette). So really because ONE SPQNR member out of 26 failed to fully understand the mechanics of COM missions on his first day of doing them you now think it is because I am a poor leader/teacher?... Get real. The only poor leaders I see in this game are the two of you.

Are you saying you two have never accidentally dropped a COM on someone before? I highly doubt that. I don't understand what has happened to you both where the friends I used to have in this game have become the biggest D-Bags. You both are worse than Dadds EVER was
Report to moderator   Logged

Join the Solar Enterprises corporation today!
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 11
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!