Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
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Author Topic: PVP Balance and New Server  (Read 1908 times)
JamJulLison
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« on: October 11, 2014, 08:41:54 PM »

Alright as many of you know PVP just isn't very good right now and with the high combat timers it really isn't possible to have any real PVP.  Unfortunately major changes to combat will likely also effect COM missions. So I have a solution to the problem.  We keep the current server as it  but SirEmi creates a 2nd server where everyone will start fresh.  Modules involved in combat would have a max level of let's say maybe 100.  That is Weapons, Marines, Living Quarters, Armor and Shields.   You may ask why do this?

As it stands now there is no limit to any of these. People's power has grown to the point that combat timers are very long.  Combat itself doesn't even have any strategy to it. It is about who can make the biggest ship with the biggest marines, weapons and shields. That's it and unless you got a lot of QP to blow, the battle isn't even likely to happen.  There isn't even any real strategy to it.  This is where my idea comes in.  With a limit on those modules, it means our ships can only be made so powerful. So people will have to think on how to design them better. They can make certain kinds of ships with certain purposes. Perhaps even smaller fighter craft could have a real purpose.  This also allows for shorter combat timers.  Perhaps there could even be modules created specially for this server that can decrease the attack timer.  True this would allow them to do COMs faster. But with their being a limit ship power, they won't be bringing in huge chunks constantly.   Also with their being a limit and their being a need for multiple ships, ship licensing cost could also be reduced.  Of course this will also increase the need for Siremi to come up with new branches of research in Weapons, Armor, Shields and maybe even personnel type in the future. Though Weapons, Shields and Armor I think should have priority.   To reward older players who have been playing, since SirEmi has all our emails from signing up with our accounts in the game, a special link could be sent out to existing members when the new server is added that when clicked will allow them to create a new account that automatically skips the whole academy portion of the game and lets them start out with 3 cruisers with some basic mods already equipped to them. This could be his way of showing his appreciation to existing members.  Of course this is a one time only thing.  New players would still have to go through the basics as usual.  This would help out old players though without giving them a big advantage over new players who sign up.  Overall this would give us a new server that actually is more geared towards pvp then the regular server which is geared more towards missions.
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kvala
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2014, 12:13:19 AM »

Definitely the game needs a paradigm change on PVP. At this time, the game is all about brute force and financial resources: doing COM for solars (mining is a huge waste of time in my opinion), upgrade modules and buy QP for VIP and officers and to speed up attacks on PVP if it is the case (speed up with QP on COM is a waste of resources, obviously). There is why a state of war between two or more players or CORPS is a concept devoid of content. All of these generates in time nothing else than boredom: there are almost 5000 accounts but only a few hundreds are active and only a few dozen really counts.
The game needs to be more dynamic and attractive, both for the new and for the old players.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 12:17:30 AM by kvala » Report to moderator   Logged
Rostin
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2014, 03:07:44 AM »

IMO the biggest change the game needs is an emphasis for new players to join corps apart from SOL. Or at least more support IN SOL (like a real leader?)

Newbie travel timers are ABSURD and are likely the main reason people quit the game. With new players joining corps they can have access to faster engines and get moving faster and enjoy the game more as a whole
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2014, 04:35:20 AM »

IMO the biggest change the game needs is an emphasis for new players to join corps apart from SOL. Or at least more support IN SOL (like a real leader?)

Newbie travel timers are ABSURD and are likely the main reason people quit the game. With new players joining corps they can have access to faster engines and get moving faster and enjoy the game more as a whole

You are correct. That is the problem for new players.  For older players it is because we get to a point when all there is to do is do the next COM or try to do some meaningless mission such as ships.  Death-Rays aren't even that good of an addition for us.  At the point where some of us are at we got weapons that make them look like child's play. In order to get them up to useful levels you would have to reverse engineer a crap ton of them.  It's not even useful.  Though if we went with my idea, they would become more useful.  With weapon techs locked, it might be possible to get death-rays up to equal or better levels of our other weapon techs.  They might be useful when you use the right strategy. Strategies that at the moment just aren't very feasible.  Also with a limit on the combat mods, smaller players would feel like they actually have some hope of catching up. Which in some ways they will.  In other ways players who stick around will have more ships with better non-combat modules. So their fleets would actually be larger and more versatile.  I am talking it actually being possible to send in larger ship with a small fleet of smaller fighter type ships that are useful in combat and you not have to deal with an insane timer length.  Hell imagine loading a shuttle up with just death-rays reversed engineered to a higher level and it being optimized (assuming they can afford to), with the camo mod. The things dodge would be huge. A small fleet of them could cripple the enemy.  Assuming of course they don't already have similar fleets themselves or thing in place to help protect them from this. Such as nukes. You could give nuke defenses to a shuttle but that would mean 3 death rays instead of 4. Considering though many targets likely wouldn't have nukes, there isn't a lot of reason to throw them on them. Especially a small fleet of them. So nukes could actually have some use.  Then there is the bomber mod that some ships can get.  We could actually have small fleets of ships capable of doing larger damage grouped together without a huge combat timer to go with it. Siremi could possible even create a new weapon tech.  Perhaps some new type of torpedo that would be perfect for ships such as this.  Like maybe without that bomber optimization the damage formula for is about equivalent to say vipers or lasers. But with it (before the actual boost percentage is added in) it can do nuke level damage but with a chance to miss. So with it it gets nuke equivalent damage + the percentage boost.  This makes it when used on them smaller ships extremely useful. But not OP since they can still miss.  Also like vipers it should do the same amount of damage on shields as it does armor.  This would make it not really very economic to actually use on large ships but it would work great with that optimization on the ships that can have it. 
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2014, 08:28:10 AM »

I appreciate the COM balance cannot be upset by screwing with timers. But... wouldn't a very, VERY simple way of facilitating better PvP combat be for the server be to recognise a certain battle IS indeed PvP, and just cut the timer by whatever factor is required to allow for proper PvP on one hand, while still allowing significantly weaker players to run for their lives if they so desire?
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Raptor
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2014, 08:43:14 AM »

Having said that, PvP will never be interesting to me without the possibility to actually destroy ships. I know that would be a major change, and also *looks* like a big threat to newbies, but I suggested this safeguard against that before:

Your ship can't actually be destroyed, but would instead make an emergency jump, if you've not attacked a real player's ships or installations WITH THAT SHIP before. So peaceful ships, even from an aggressive captain/corp would remain protected against destruction. In short: he who lives by the sword, *may* die by it.

I appreciate that sometimes one has to remove inactive players' modules from a planet or something, so perhaps actions against inactives should not mark one's ship "killable".
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 04:44:53 PM by Raptor » Report to moderator   Logged
Viracocha
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2014, 07:52:36 PM »

i was already play game where staff is decide to make new server on players demand and what happen
old server have large down of activity and at the end dead and new one didn't have activity like first one so i think that this is not good idea ...

There is tons of PVP game why you want " another PVP game"
There is lots of things to do here and with new updates i am sure that will be more things to do
this is exploration game and i will like to stay as it is  1
With smart play any newbie can be  in top 20 in 6 months ...
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2014, 08:19:56 PM »

Viracocha: I wish the same future for the game as you. I agree with you.
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2014, 02:02:30 AM »

i was already play game where staff is decide to make new server on players demand and what happen
old server have large down of activity and at the end dead and new one didn't have activity like first one so i think that this is not good idea ...

There is tons of PVP game why you want " another PVP game"
There is lots of things to do here and with new updates i am sure that will be more things to do
this is exploration game and i will like to stay as it is  1
With smart play any newbie can be  in top 20 in 6 months ...


Then why make PVP as an option at all? Why even make it possible to attack ships?   If an option for pvp exist in a game it should at least be made viable.  With a 2nd server, this allows for one more geared towards it while there still being this one which seems more geared towards missions.  I imagine some people would play on both like myself.  But honestly I think I would be getting bored with that other server a lot less sooner then I do on here.   Also these other space games with PVP are nothing like Astro.  That is why I don't even really care for them. Astro has a lot that I like that others are missing. Astro on the other hand is missing one key thing and that is viable pvp.  No one would be forcing you to come play on a 2nd server that is more pvp oriented, Though that server would be just as geared towards exploration as the main server.  There wouldn't be a limit on non-combat modules on that server.


Quote
Having said that, PvP will never be interesting to me without the possibility to actually destroy ships. I know that would be a major change, and also *looks* like a big threat to newbies, but I suggested this safeguard against that before:

Your ship can't actually be destroyed, but would instead make an emergency jump, if you've not attacked a real player's ships or installations WITH THAT SHIP before. So peaceful ships, even from an aggressive captain/corp would remain protected against destruction. In short: he who lives by the sword, *may* die by it.

I appreciate that sometimes one has to remove inactive players' modules from a planet or something, so perhaps actions against inactives should not mark one's ship "killable".


So why not on this new server make that possible as well.  Perhaps the odds of a ship being blown up are low to begin with. But they are increased the more safety override modules a person uses. This would make that mod a double edge sword.  So yes they could fight longer but at an increased risk of losing their ships.  So say it starts with a low 2 percent chance. As we use overrides. it can increase up to say maybe 98 percent or something like that.  I know that low side is a bit low but it beats how it is now and it gives the Emergency Jump a real function.  Plus if a newer player gets hit, the odds of them losing a ship is low so they won't necessarily just quit because they get hit.  They likely would if it destroyed their ships a lot.
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lisunken
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 01:33:40 PM »

Proposing a new PVP server at this time is not wise.  ( yes I don't like the way is setup too  10 )
but it need some more work before another server is to be proposed.

1.) This game need more active player. ( we can not see any active at all, maybe a hand full at best. )

2.) New player should not let alone in sol with out guiding. I declare all new player shall be drafted to all active corp for guiding and service.
     ( The Corp will provider training and upgraded modules to the new recruit for a set of time. If the recruit wish to stay or muster out. )

3.) Corp structure need to be rework as of now is one person view. Since is a Corp, Captain of the same Corp shall able set some of there modules as Corp use.
     Any Corp members can barrow form the Corp Headquarter or pay a set price for the modules. Also the new recruit will give a set of instruction to empty mining
     modules at XY system. One is training and recruit to be pay a % of the load and build up cash for more better ship and weapon.
   
4.) The game been updating, until all is settled and full tested. I believe we all need to wait and see how the last two update finished go before add more request.
     ( yes I not happy about the long waiting time. )


Any Caption wish add comment or debate... 
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 04:48:16 PM »

Perhaps right now isn't the best time for the 2nd server to be made but my idea shouldn't be tabled either.  This idea could be something to consider in the future. Though to be honest I don't see the player base getting bigger with things staying the same as they are now. The player base is still roughly the same as it was when I first joined the game in 2012. Yes new players have joined since then but many have also quit. I would say the same amount of active players hasn't really changed all that much.  We need more stuff that can draw in the people.  Now I wish my idea could just be implemented on the main server but that just isn't possible simply because it would require a pwipe. No one wants to lose any of their hard work. The only other option would be to downgrade all current combat mods in the game to MK 100. This also wouldn't sit well with a lot of players.  A 2nd server is just the best option for this.
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 06:14:38 PM »

jam we may ask for a combat arena in sol. one on one and cut down the time for combat.
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 06:34:46 PM »

jam we may ask for a combat arena in sol. one on one and cut down the time for combat.


And what is even the point for a combat arena?  So we can just flex our muscles and show off in a meaningless arena battle for glory?  This is not going to fix any problems with actual pvp.  As it stands now it is impossible for Corps to have real wars with one another.  Sometimes we get into pointless bickering that ultimately leads to war. But nothing ever gets solved cause no one can ever really do anything to each other.  This game pride's itself on realism. Well space combat between enemies is part of that. Yet real combat is impossible. In order for this game to be truly complete in all aspects it needs just that. When SirEmi first created this game I am sure this timer looked liked a good idea. However he was looking at it from a small scale.  Let's face it those of us who did a lot of combat early on didn't have to wait too long to attack at first.  But as the power of our ships increased the numbers just turned to unrealistic amounts.  Some of you are stubborn and want things to remain the way things are.  So fine lets keep a server that keeps PVP crappy. But we also need a version of the game where combat can actually be done in a reasonable time. Honestly I think if a 2nd server is made it could end up being far more successful then this server. Simply because the game will feel a bit more complete and less unrealistic. Hell the way it stands now practically all the combat optimizations are useless.  Take for example improved attack, shields and armors.  The only ship that is somewhat useful on right now is the battleship. Since battles come down to who has the most mods and the biggest guns/marines/shields, anything less the battleship is just pointless unless on a small raiding ship hitting lesser targets. Even then, you likely will get more out of using more mods on a titan. In the case of shields there the Reinforced hull which is more useful when just thrown on a titan since your using more shield mods.   Both Interceptor and Assault bomber are practically useless since small ships really can't do much even with these.  The way things are in the game your better off using an unoptimized titan then using these. Even the Camouflage system has limited uses. Best used on smaller ships which once again are just not that great to use. The Boarding ship optimization is also not very useful since if your going to make a marine ship your better off going with the hull upgraded titan then this.  After all that gives it the much needed shields marine ships need. Plus it gives you more marines to make use of.  You can't even make the argument that these optimizations would be better for newer players then older players since it isn't likely newer players will be able to afford these optimizations. Not to mention they just don't have the tech levels to make smaller ships even somewhat useful.  As it stands the vast majority of ship hull sizes and a good portion of the optimizations just aren't really that useful.   You can tell what they are designed for and if the game worked as I suggested for it to on a 2nd server, they might actually be able to server their purposes.  Right now though it is just a bunch of garbage. One big mess. In my opinion that makes the game look bad and not well thought out.  It's great we got the exploration stuff in the game.  It is great we got the missions. It is great we are getting more. But we shouldn't ignore a portion of the game that vastly needs fixed just because not everyone likes that aspect. There are people who do.  One should not be ignored over the other.
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 11:53:25 PM »

I repeat my suggestion for a quick fix: make PvP timers a factor x shorter than COM timers. Problem (at least partially) solved.
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 12:33:33 AM »

Jam

I have the same feeling too about the combat system of this game. Just for Sir E to set up a combat arena to test the combat system is most easily them a hold server. If work out can be updated as hold to the game.
that should be the next set of request to be updated.
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