Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
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Author Topic: Player ranks  (Read 1005 times)
kurama
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« on: January 10, 2016, 03:44:59 AM »

I suggest that there be player ranks different from current ranking method, in this forum i see players with military ranks next to their name.
but in ingame ranks, its only based on power level. here is what i think ranking should be:

1. ranking titles/levels - based on player's power level,
example: 1 - 49,999 power = level 1 rank
----------  50,000 - 99,999 power = level 2,
----------   100,000 - 499,999 power = level 3, and so on,

2. This player level will be the basis on unlocking exploration privileges, like players at level 1 can only explore the Sol (0,0) quadrant and cannot go outside farther to the 1st ring.
level 2 can explore up to the 1st ring but cannot go to the 2nd ring (cannot mine/deploy modules amd stations on planets in Q 0,0 and the 2nd ring where his ships is not allowed because of his rank level)
level 3 can explore up to the 2nd ring but cannot mine or do Coms in the home quadrant and 1st ring.

3. Regarding deploying stations. Should it be time? that high level players not allowed to have stations in Sol quadrant?? if they need stations at Sol, then there should be Corp stations as neutral stations owned by the Corp in general for Corp member's use. modifying Corp stations be based on corp member's ranking assigned/given by the Corp leader. (this stations could be 1. a shipyard, 2. a marketplace for sell/buy modules, 3. exchange stations for mineral/gas deposits as well as mining/Com missions as trade method between players. =also these eliminates the possibility of players stealing modules from doing exchange at abusing corp ships and the trouble of bouncing ship assignment between members like a ping pong ball. about time for a better economy system.

bottomline it separates/divides the veteran high level players occupying the inner stars/planets from the new players. if they want to do missions or operate either in the inner stars or farther rings, then they have to keep/meet their ship's power level to the level/range respectively. where they can only change ranks/power brackets at day's update.
isn't it nice to at least see power hungry players have rivalry with other of his level? not taking advantage over the lower/new players??
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 04:00:57 AM by kurama » Report to moderator   Logged
dkuhnkc
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 04:53:13 AM »

Totally DISAGREE with point 2. Will create a BIG HANDICAP for smaller players. They won't be able to do SOS searches in the 4th ring where the profit is highest. It will also restrict their mining.

3. What about commerce stations? I have one station in SOL that I use to buy and sell materials with others in my corporation. IMO far better and easier to open things up, at least in SOL. How about allowing every captain to have 1 station in earth. Stations with corporate or public docking can be visible to the corporation or all captains as applicable.

Your proposal wont keep the high level payers out of the inner rings, but will restrict the newer players. Instead you can do the opposite:
rank 1=100K power minus
rank 2=100K-1M power
rank 3=1M-10M power
rank 4=10M power plus

Rank 1 has no restrictions.
Rank 2 is restricted from placing surface modules in sector zero, (including SOL) but can unload or scoop existing modules from the surface.
Rank 3 is restricted from placing modules or unloading modules in sector zero, only allowed to scoop modules. In the first ring he/she is restricted from placing modules, but can unload or scoop existing modules from the surface.
Rank 4 can only scoop modules in sector zero or the first ring, is restricted from placing or unloading modules.
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Antilak
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 05:46:32 PM »

Fundamentally this is an age old problem of the circle jerking wealthy class, fully bunkered in, living in luxurious gold marble palaces, giving the boot to the poor and young--ruling the high places and dictating with an iron fist. New players feel beaten down and only the most persevering--usually a minority--will climb up the ladder and someday become veterans themselves. In most MMO's this is also known as mudflation, wherein mudflation is the cure to this gap between the powerful and the weak. It's a bridge between the lowly and the superiors. It stops this gap from growing. In RL, one of the forms "mudflation" takes is death. The ruling elite die, thus making room for those climbing the ladder. It's a ruthless mechanic, not often used in MMO's.

One of the things I favor is just decreasing the absolute difference between veterans and new players. The way you do this is to make the game simpler, so it's quicker to learn and be a master. You also only allow players to have X maximum power, thus putting a cap on them. Another way is to ensure players are accurately put into competitive leagues which represent their capacity as a player, thus ensuring fairness will be the rule, not the exception. In FPS games, for example, players typically start on a new player server and join Clans and those clans compete with other clans within their league. The highest leagues are the best players, but players and clans have to work their way up and prove they can play at that level.

So in the case of Astro Galaxy, what we have is the oldest players can decide who has a station and who doesn't and who can freely plant modules on planets and who can't. This is because the oldest players are so immensely powerful compared to new players. New players are ants, sometimes crushed beneath their boots. New players might be able to negotiate deals on a diplomatic level, but they do not have the raw power (the teeth) to prevent abuse.

Without the developers intervening and trying to enforce fairness, the players would have to. In RL, government and a justice system and a culture exist to enforce fairness (and human rights), although it's arguable how effective it's. In Astro Galaxy, there really isn't anything of the sort. We're gamers, anyway, not politicians or policeman or human rights activists. Fairness is a difficult word, often involving lots of methodical labor and patience. We're just unlikely to enforce fairness. (And in many ways we can't. Wormhole Detectors, for example, don't identify a player directly, just teh class of the ship.)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 06:03:53 PM by Antilak » Report to moderator   Logged

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Other_Bartel
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 06:24:44 PM »

I agree that a difference between power ratings could work, however putting a cap on power would make the game completely different and then veteran players would have nothing to play for.

What could happen is once a certain point is reached, or the higher you get, it becomes harder to increase power.

Or if you wanted to you could put in some sort of tax system.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 12:56:54 AM by Other_Bartel » Report to moderator   Logged

Antilak
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 08:24:26 PM »

I agree that there needs to be a difference between power ratings, however putting a cap on power would make the game completely different and then veteran players would have noting to play for.

What could happen is once a certain point is reached, or the higher you get, it becomes harder to increase power.

Or if you wanted to you could put in some sort of tax system.
What do you do? You have two players who want to kill s*** for loot and experience:
1) Pete is level 1 with 10 hp and his dps is 1/s and his budget is $10/month
2) Jill is level 200 with 200000 hp and her dps is 413/s and her budget is $40/month

The traditional way to handle this is to tier (and instance) content, for all level ranges and for soloers and groupers and raiders, so that Pete is playing in level 1 content and Jill is playing in level 200 content. This allows for htem to play in relative peace and not affect each other in unpleasant ways. Unpleasant example: Jill complaining Pete doesn't know how to play and makes things less fun. Another: Pete complaining Jill kills everything and doesn't leave anything for him to kill.

There're other things too. Pete might complain Jill drives up prices because she spends half her time making alts. She has so much money the sellers have increased their prices to soak up her money. There're varying ways of dealing with that. And there're tons of other things which come up too with differing ways to resolve it. Much of it is LIKE tiering.

But as MMO's get older, there're more and more levels and more and more pieces of land and more and more systems. It's power creep. It's friends wanting to play with friends, but being different levels. It's changing popularity of the MMO. Etc.

The community starts to fracture. Not because of tiering, but because of the absolute power difference between the strongest and the weakest. The MMO is trying to keep this at a constant amount via mudflation and other tricks, but the patchwork fixes eventually fail and it falls apart under its own weight. Making a new MMO becomes more cost effective.

Wiping and/or resetting and/or (usually soft?) caps on power might be an alternative, maybe. Some sandbox/pvp MMO's are experimting with limited wiping. Crowfall, a new MMO with distant relations to Shadowbane, will use a kind of wipin. Every X months the map players build on and pvp in will be wiped. BUT players keep their characters and bank. They also have land they can build on which WON'T wipe and only has consented pvp. All of this is still an experiment, but...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 08:42:44 PM by Antilak » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2016, 08:35:53 PM »

Sorry,  should have made myself more clear
An example of what I meant by saying it should be harder to grow the more power you get is:
At "Level 1" the cost per marine is 30, but at "Level 2" that cost increases.
xpower = "Level 1"
ypower = "Level 2"
zpower = "Level 3"
and so on

This system could be used for everything purchasable.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 08:48:31 PM by Other_Bartel » Report to moderator   Logged

sargas
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 12:40:39 AM »

NO!

Do not presume to restrict the Empire in ANY way.
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Other_Bartel
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 10:27:27 AM »

NO!

Do not presume to restrict the Empire in ANY way.
What are you talking about?
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Raptor
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 10:39:50 AM »

It may just have something to do with Matamaure having to pay the highest prices in the history of the game  19 laugh
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Matamaure001
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 12:03:00 PM »

The most precious commodity in the game are ships and we are very limited in the number we can have. My next one will cost : New ship license cost:   $1,641,332,471. If you do not find this limiting, what is? No need to add any other limitations. Grow little ones and you will pass me...
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sargas
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 12:19:43 PM »

NO!

Do not presume to restrict the Empire in ANY way.
What are you talking about?


this:

Totally DISAGREE with point 2. Will create a BIG HANDICAP for smaller players. They won't be able to do SOS searches in the 4th ring where the profit is highest. It will also restrict their mining.

3. What about commerce stations? I have one station in SOL that I use to buy and sell materials with others in my corporation. IMO far better and easier to open things up, at least in SOL. How about allowing every captain to have 1 station in earth. Stations with corporate or public docking can be visible to the corporation or all captains as applicable.

Your proposal wont keep the high level payers out of the inner rings, but will restrict the newer players. Instead you can do the opposite:
rank 1=100K power minus
rank 2=100K-1M power
rank 3=1M-10M power
rank 4=10M power plus

Rank 1 has no restrictions.
Rank 2 is restricted from placing surface modules in sector zero, (including SOL) but can unload or scoop existing modules from the surface.
Rank 3 is restricted from placing modules or unloading modules in sector zero, only allowed to scoop modules. In the first ring he/she is restricted from placing modules, but can unload or scoop existing modules from the surface.
Rank 4 can only scoop modules in sector zero or the first ring, is restricted from placing or unloading modules.


Two thirds of the Empire consist of Rank 4.
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dkuhnkc
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 09:08:07 PM »

NO!

Do not presume to restrict the Empire in ANY way.
What are you talking about?


this:

Totally DISAGREE with point 2. Will create a BIG HANDICAP for smaller players. They won't be able to do SOS searches in the 4th ring where the profit is highest. It will also restrict their mining.

3. What about commerce stations? I have one station in SOL that I use to buy and sell materials with others in my corporation. IMO far better and easier to open things up, at least in SOL. How about allowing every captain to have 1 station in earth. Stations with corporate or public docking can be visible to the corporation or all captains as applicable.

Your proposal wont keep the high level payers out of the inner rings, but will restrict the newer players. Instead you can do the opposite:
rank 1=100K power minus
rank 2=100K-1M power
rank 3=1M-10M power
rank 4=10M power plus

Rank 1 has no restrictions.
Rank 2 is restricted from placing surface modules in sector zero, (including SOL) but can unload or scoop existing modules from the surface.
Rank 3 is restricted from placing modules or unloading modules in sector zero, only allowed to scoop modules. In the first ring he/she is restricted from placing modules, but can unload or scoop existing modules from the surface.
Rank 4 can only scoop modules in sector zero or the first ring, is restricted from placing or unloading modules.


Two thirds of the Empire consist of Rank 4.

I doubt that either proposal will be implemented. Kurama said that he wanted to make it easier for new players, than messed up his proposal by writing it so that it restricted what low power players could do.

I was attempting to show how it could be written to use his intent. The only thing my proposal did was not allow the "big boys" to mine in the 1st ring, saving that for the newbies. That is 9 sectors. There are 72 other sectors in the main cluster, 100 in the ARC. (alien remnant cluster)

to me, more important to revamp stations for free trade and add corporate stations.
 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 09:16:00 PM by dkuhnkc » Report to moderator   Logged
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