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Author Topic: We can minimize loss in planetary combat and add strategy.  (Read 18504 times)
Bomale
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« on: October 06, 2012, 02:26:20 PM »

 17 Salutation,

Discussion for an optional blank to add to the fight.

We know that currently the modules on systems and stations can be destroyed in an attack.
In my opinion, in this process, it is very  4 frustrating for the player to lose many hours invested and the cost too.
A repetition, it becomes erritant and it is likely that the player gets tired of playing.

 laugh here a way to proceed for fighting, a basic idea what.

Suppose that the modules can not be destroyed in battle, but rather endommaged. Module endommaged work has 20%, and until it is fully repaired.
 atention Pirates maybe just interested by pillar, so don't need to capture, just loot the module.

Behold, now adds a new dimension in the fighting ... modules can no longer be destroyed but rather endommaged when they are located a planet, then a player would have the option of capturing module endommaged.

Only modules endommaged on a planet will be captured. And this option would actually purchase the actual value of module and the amount paid will be returned to the owner legitimate.

Thus, a player capturing the module may become the owner and need to repair to get a fully new module.
The cost to capture and repair is more cost elevate the actual module base is perfect,
so the player has acquerie module for the location, or for a resource, or simply because he wanted technology higher than him he does not possess.

Thus, we eliminate the frustration and travails facts.
This introduce little strategy in planetary invasion.

Note : Option(s) module endommaged :
              Owner : Can not do any change before it fully repair.
              Other player : Loot or capture.

 12 What do you think?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 03:04:51 PM by Bomale » Report to moderator   Logged

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Bomale
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 02:41:55 PM »

 17 Hello again,

Approach brings an option modules become damaged catchable


Before we can capture module damaged, the planet will have NO military unit and NO civilian present.
So, it will capture these units first if they are present, then the other modules damaged.

For these example just needs to say 20% efficiency for damaged modules.

Example 1: Planet with Damages in modules:
1. MIF 20% of 350 = 70 civilians Civilians
Capture 1: Can be captured easily with either 70 civilians and 25 military

Example 2: Planet with Damages in modules:
1. MIF 20% of 350 = 70 civilians Civilians
2. MAU (Marine Assault Units) 20% of 1200 = 240 Military + cost of the module


Capture 1: Capture the MAU with 240 Military,
Capture 2: Capture the MIF as in Example 1.

Greater the MAU and capture modules will be more difficult.
We can add LVQ, the efficiency is lower then MAU but cost too.

Here is the strategy that will increase in the fighting and make them more varied.

I personally believe that every game should avoid too easily destroy the work done by the players
A varied strategy in the fight is a dimension that I like, and avoids the possibility to monotonous repetition when it has no strategy.
This is an idea that can be modeled to finally be realize for the good of all.

 12 Just a discussion, but there are a LOT of potential.

Bomale
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 03:13:28 PM by Bomale » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »

I do like the idea of having an option not to destroy it. What if, say, you had two options when attacking: one destroys the modules, but has a really low loot value (good during wars where you want to cripple the enemy, but not spread yourself too thin). The other option would be to plunder the module, damaging it but not destroying it, and getting more loot and a chance to capture it?
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 05:43:09 PM »

I do like the idea of having an option not to destroy it. What if, say, you had two options when attacking: one destroys the modules, but has a really low loot value (good during wars where you want to cripple the enemy, but not spread yourself too thin). The other option would be to plunder the module, damaging it but not destroying it, and getting more loot and a chance to capture it?

 17 Hello,

Yes, It is better as you said that the current way.

 21 Imagine this, I took my best ship and I can destroy all that I meet on my way.
So for the new players, the Apocalypse would permanently.
Not just me, another player can do too, so the game quickly loses interest for the new players.

For this last reason, I believe, that destroy a module on the planet should not do this.
 12 My opinion is that not only the ships can not be destroyed, but the station also. They can be damaged, the pillar and put them nonfunctional.

 Opps You know how long (days) and resource (many solars) that it takes to build a nice set-up for get money.
Work over several weeks could destroy just for the pleasure of destroying.

 laugh Say no to destruction, so called recycling.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 08:14:20 PM by Bomale » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 04:50:23 AM »

Aye,

Its an Idea worth talking about.

The lads and I are really only interested in one thing, Getting enough money together to pay for our Rum. Were not into destruction just for the sake of it.

If we had the option to just loot a settlement instead of destroy it, well we most likely take it up. After all if we dont destroy it then it will be there to loot again later.

If we do loot the station/planet/ship then id expect that we get access to the specific goods that are being mined/stored there. rather than the minerals that go into making its modules.

Perhapes the dirtsiders could even have the option to surrender earlier than when theyve taken full damage if the attacker is using a looting focused attack, Sort of allows the owner to say that they will accept the occasional loss of the goods so long as they dont loose all their modules. Id expect there will be a few die hards that would also like to say they never surrender... well so be it.

Id still like to be able to capture a module every now and then though, especially those nice high mark versions that we simply cant build ourselves. So we wouldnt want to see that option dissappear.

I reckon this could be a win-win for both sides if done right.
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 09:41:14 AM »

Ok, I think we could do something like this:

An option can be selected by the attacker before the attack on station / planetary forces.

Loot & plunder (selected by default)
Marines will fortify to 9 HP each, Trained civilians 3 HP

Mining / harvester facilities extracted fill rate amount will be looted.
Stations cargo holds will be looted with 100% chance.

Military units / weapons fight and take casualties.
Some military personnel will survive and re-group after the attack.

Civilian personnel will only engage if the planetary / station unit is at least two times more powerful then the attacker unit,
if not they surrender the goods / resources and nothing will be destroyed.



Capture / Destroy

Marines will fortify to 15 HP each, Trained civilians 5 HP

Capture vs Destroy chance 50% / 50%
Wreckage from station and modules destroyed in minerals and gases.
Only 25% chance of looting each station cargo, due to being destroyed.

Everyone fights.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 12:46:48 PM by SirEmi » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 12:14:21 PM »

Sounds good. a few Comments.

If Im a joe shmoe working on some mining station and a bunch of pirates show up in orbit and attack only the marines defending me while broadcasting a message that says eject the cargo and we leave you alone, then im pretty likely to eject all the cargo for them to scoop up, in the hopes ill live. However, if they start shooting at everything. then Im likely to defend myself for a while before trying to sneak away from the module in my space suit before the whole place gets destroyed.

So.

Perhapes on the loot & plunder attack just have the military units fight? That way only they will take the casualties, if they are defeated then the civilians surrender, and the attacker can loot the resources. The defender then only needs to replace marines in the military units to be back to full strength. There could perhapes still be a chance that a military module does get destroyed, especially if the attack was overwealming, and id expect that not all marines get killed before they surrender, so that after the raid they can regroup and the planet/station is not totally defenceless untill new marines arrive.

Im not so interested in taking (more) prisoners. They take up way too much cargo space compared to their value as it is. Unless we can convert them to fuel, which is i guess kind of immorral  21 Id rather not capture more prisoners on a loot and plunder attack, id actually prefer less.  However i do think that people out to capture modules would normally be more interested in taking prisoners, so that they can then use them to crew the new module.

The fortification bonus of 5 when defnding against a capture / destroy attack wil likely make it necessary to attack with multiple ships against a single target during a player war. where destruction is the main goal, Which seems like a good thing. it might even help slow down the pace of a war somewhat. although i guess people will still be vulnerable to a QP aided Blitzkreig.

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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 12:44:27 PM »

Ok, edited the details a bit, should be more balance now.
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 12:46:31 PM »

Loot & plunder (selected by default)
Marines will fortify to 9 HP each, Trained civilians 3 HP

Mining / harvester facilities extracted fill rate amount will be looted.
Stations cargo holds will be looted with 100% chance.
Only military units fight and take casualties.
Some military personnel will survive and re-group after the attack.
Normal chance to capture personnel in boarding / ground combat.
Nothing will be destroyed.

question 1: does the fortification mean for the defender, attacker, or both?  Also, why the phrase "fortification"? Is this different than the normal HP for military and civilian?

question 2:  100% loot rate seems extremely high - shouldn't it be related to percentage success in battle?  Or does this mean it's 100% if the attack is successful?

Quote


Capture / Destroy

Marines will fortify to 15 HP each, Trained civilians 5 HP

Capture vs Destroy chance 50% / 50%
Wreckage from station and modules destroyed in minerals and gases.
Only 25% chance of looting each station cargo, due to being destroyed.
Double chance to capture personnel in boarding / ground combat.


What does "wreckage from station and modules destroyed in minerals and gases" mean?
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Bomale
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 12:50:33 PM »

 17 Hi,

 atention Need to know whether we recognize first that the destruction of modules on a solid or gas planet is acceptable or not.

The question would be:
Is what I want my modules is constantly destroyed and, since it is currently possible?
Is this a new player be love destroy these modules after a long effort to introduce and continue the game?

For me, no doubt I am part of the NO. Loosing players will not help us.

If the whole community is for YES,
  then hoped a player with a powerful ship does not pass through your system.
Not known him that it is too powerful, or that harasses, it does what it does because the logistics of the game allows.

 laugh In the words of Scion, yes indeed, a module can be damaged easily and looted again,
  less profitable because the owner has not made repairs and the modules does 20% as has already been said in the example.
That sound good to me.

Keeping the damaged modules and not destroy,
an attacker can find a way to more fun and have a source of income, making a sector's hunting ground and making slaves some players present in system.

 21 Regarding the capture is that it is strategic rather than beneficial. Really important to understand the difference between the two.
If the score is beneficial determinant, then returned almost at the same level as to destroy a module.
If this is the strategic dimension is very different then, is to capture the level of technical module, this is the resource on the planet, or any other reasons.

In addition, the cost of capture must be necessarily high to avoid unnecessary abuse.
It will be evident that investment will not be a problem for the capture of few MIF on a planet with 1 @ 2 rare resources, or resources needed.
If the area is poor, the cost of the capture is perhaps not worth it, so much the better.
In addition, for type gas planets (almost defenseless),
  it is again easy for a player to damaged modules and keep them in slavery, and even if they do work has 20%.
There no limit for player to build his economy all around with this strategy.

In short, our community must determine if it agrees to eliminate the option of destruction modules.
Each module is destroyed depressing to new players, industry players, or simply less powerful player.

After determining the there will be a beacon to advance no matter the choice.

 12 To us to decide.
 laugh We all need to have fun, even the slave is entitled to some happiness.
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 12:51:40 PM »


question 1: does the fortification mean for the defender, attacker, or both?  Also, why the phrase "fortification"? Is this different than the normal HP for military and civilian?

question 2:  100% loot rate seems extremely high - shouldn't it be related to percentage success in battle?  Or does this mean it's 100% if the attack is successful?

q3: What does "wreckage from station and modules destroyed in minerals and gases" mean?

1.) The defenders basically get more HP, hitpoints as they have the terrain knowledge and fortify themselves against attack. The more fierce, deadly the attack, the more determined the defenders will be.

2.) 100% means that everything in the cargo holds and fill rates in the mining facilities will be looted, if there is enough cargo space to hold it.

3.) Wreckage means that when the modules are destroyed, some minerals / gases will be recovered from the wreckage.


Also, to answer Bomale about destroying modules vs. farming them.

For a pirate I don't see any problems in him going about and collecting resources from other players via loot & plunder. If they can't defend the modules, it's better for them to pay this tax to the pirate rather then the module being destroyed and I see the pirate benefiting more from farming the mining facilities then destroying it, but if he chooses to destroy / capture then the personnel will put up a good fight, with fortify bonus and all...

Repairing modules and such is too much micro-management, and to keep it realistic if the pirate asks for the loot and you give it, he moves on and you don't sustain any damage other then losing the resources. Eliminating destroying of modules wouldn't be too smart, that would make it difficult to claim planets and get rid of unwanted presence.

So you could have two mining facilities on a small moon with some rare resources in it. Now the pirates may come every few days and collect your fill rate, it cuts into your profits but hey, you sill have your modules and personnel  laugh


« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 01:03:35 PM by SirEmi » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 01:15:17 PM »


2.) 100% means that everything in the cargo holds and fill rates in the mining facilities will be looted, if there is enough cargo space to hold it.


I understood the 100% part - what I didn't understand is what allows the attacker to loot? Does he have to win the battle first?  Even if the attack is successful, I don't think 100% loot should be given - that's extremely rewarding.  To do this, I would almost reverse what you said, where the defenders get a bigger bonus against looting than they do against destruction, because it's easier to destroy than it is to subdue.

It shouldn't be easy to just roam around and take things from mining facilities on the surfaces of planets; there should be some effort involved.
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 01:19:28 PM »

What does "wreckage from station and modules destroyed in minerals and gases" mean?

tell me where youve left some undefended modules and i will happily demonstrate.  laugh

Also, there is a reasonable risk involved in being a pirate, its not all taking candy from a baby. A lot of the planets now are well defended, Ive even been reduced to ferrying passengers around to pay for some upgrades. although they will have a tale to tell their grandchildren, i really should charge them more.

If a planet or facility is well defended then it is not easy to loot. Not witht he fortification bonus.

With the proposed changes it would mean you could reduce your potential losses by picking up your resources regularly. But i think most of the folks whose stuff ive raized to the ground would agree they would have rather i just taken the resources they had on hand than loose all the modules.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 01:28:05 PM by Scion » Report to moderator   Logged
Bomale
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 01:27:55 PM »


For a pirate I don't see any problems in him going about and collecting resources from other players via loot & plunder. If they can't defend the modules, it's better for them to pay this tax to the pirate rather then the module being destroyed and I see the pirate benefiting more from farming the mining facilities then destroying it, but if he chooses to destroy / capture then the personnel will put up a good fight, with fortify bonus and all...

 17 Hi,

 21 I do not see how a new player would be able to defend themselves or to modules efficient enough to defend its modules.
       (There will ALWAYS be easier to have a superior strength for a player somewhat advance)
 14 Pay a fee to avoid the destruction, it's for a day, a week, or for immediate..., and for a module, or a system or for worse, an Alliance, etc..., can be nice and acceptable for one time or two.
In addition, we are talking about as a pirate, players will manage how the taxes when he has several pirates? Not obvious.

Then even the top players will have modules with less or no protection, he shall pay a fee! Hmmm still not evident.

And the same, it will not stop a pirate to destroy the module.

To continu...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:47:39 PM by Bomale » Report to moderator   Logged

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Bomale
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 01:39:11 PM »

...continu,


Repairing modules and such is too much micro-management, and to keep it realistic if the pirate asks for the loot and you give it, he moves on and you don't sustain any damage other then losing the resources. Eliminating destroying of modules wouldn't be too smart, that would make it difficult to claim planets and get rid of unwanted presence.


Implements this option is difficult, of course, I am in no hurry so this is the time it takes.

It can be similar to the repair of armor and / or cost in solars. Or another way, as time ... whatever.

 12 Build a game with a solid foundation takes time and we encourage take this time.

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