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Author Topic: Combat Drives  (Read 2502 times)
Arctic
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« on: May 25, 2013, 03:24:18 AM »

I'm still not fully sure of the ultimate purpose of combat drives. Do they reduce the amount of time to position yourself for attack? Do they give you first strike advantage? Does it do both? How does it calculate?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

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JamJulLison
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 11:42:14 PM »

I think it is just first strike advantage.
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Aysle
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 01:54:10 AM »

It gives you a better chance of 1st strike but still not 100% for sure
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Arctic
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 02:09:08 AM »

What makes me curious is when you look at the optimization of Interceptor. It states:

+80 km/s combat speed, +25% combat speed

Combat engines increase in km/s with each upgrade.

It seems like the Interceptor optimization might increase both speed of positioning, as well as increasing first strike chance.

Combat engines don't say anything about combat speed. So, in the end, what is the difference between combat speed by km/s and straight up combat speed?
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Jazzbob
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2013, 08:28:17 AM »

Interesting question!
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JamJulLison
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2013, 11:20:48 AM »

Here is what it states.

+80 km/s combat speed, +25% combat speed, +45% dodge

That means first it adds 80 km. Then it adds another 25 percent bonus to that combat speed.  Then gives you 45 percent dodge to the ship. The Combat Drives only has to do with first shot. Positioning really doesn't seem to matter.  The way I see it in my mind isn't like Star Trek.  The 2 ships come towards each other firing everything they can at the other ship. Once they are close enough and are out of weapons, they proceed to boarding one another ships. Meaning both are docked with each other in some fashion at that point.
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Jazzbob
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 04:56:54 AM »

Does that mean, that the combat drive shortens the time before boarding?

Sorry if i get it wrong, i maybe didn't get the point because of my bad english.
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 11:00:27 PM »

Does that mean, that the combat drive shortens the time before boarding?

Sorry if i get it wrong, i maybe didn't get the point because of my bad english.

No. It has nothing to do with attack time or anything like that. It only has to do with first shot advantage really.  I know I wish there was more purpose to these too.
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 03:30:08 PM »

Quote
Does that mean, that the combat drive shortens the time before boarding?
The CDR is only really designed for getting the first punch in, so make it a good one! (It does add slightly to the overall power of the vessel also, by a factor of 50 per km/s). The real advantage of the interceptor optimization is its dodge bonus. "you can see me, but you cant hit me", as she delivers up her full payload of weaponry. After that, the interceptor is prone to marine boarding like the rest of us slow coaches, should the opposition still be around. Hopefully she does enough dodging for her shields/armor to hold out an assault at that point, or its back to the rally point for refit!

Hope this clears up a few questions, and maybe gives pilots out there a few ideas 1

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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 03:37:49 PM »

Yeah those interceptor / assault bombers aren't designed to tank, mostly those optimizations are to be used in conjunction with a mothership nearby, waiting either in orbit or at the system entry point.

The interceptor can also be used effectively as a decoy, with few people on board and high dodge, loaded with weapons it can effectively use up an enemies weapons while retreating if damaged, straight to the safe point and into the mothership hangar for repairs / resupply.

After the interceptor uses up enemy guns, the assault bomber can make quick work of the enemy. To do this, the interceptors need to have a bit more power then the assault bombers, to make sure they are ordered properly.

The interceptor speed boost also makes it a nice pirate ship, raiding mining facilities and dealing with small ships...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 03:39:47 PM by SirEmi » Report to moderator   Logged

JamJulLison
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 04:04:55 PM »

The thing is with smaller ships even when used like that, against bigger  combat ships they aren't likelly to make a dent unless they have really high tech levels and the enemy has crappy tech. My best ships can easily survive nuke assaults taking little to no damage. I may install nuke defenses eventually. Against stations  these tactics may workprovided you got enough QP to speed up attacks. I must disagee on using these to pirate. Raiding you need cargo space, some shields, close to empty lq & marines, a few mk 1 laser, ftl, wormhole gen and a high mk combat drive or 2. LQ & marines empty is to allow for powering down. You don't want any more power then you need to win. This keeps attack times lower. With what you need I reccomend no smaller then a battlecruiser.
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SirEmi
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 04:15:09 PM »

Yeah, anyway the interceptor / assault frigates / bomber are highly specialized ships.

I don't expect those ships to win against a rough and highly armored enemy many time their size, it's not realistic, but those ships equipped with high tech modules will squeeze every bit of attack power for each of the power point they hold, and it's the battle between quantity and quality.

Eventually, a highly advanced squadron will be able to take on higher and higher power rating ships. That's the real advantage that could turn the tide of a battle, when that battle is even on power rating.

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JamJulLison
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 04:03:15 AM »

Yeah, anyway the interceptor / assault frigates / bomber are highly specialized ships.

I don't expect those ships to win against a rough and highly armored enemy many time their size, it's not realistic, but those ships equipped with high tech modules will squeeze every bit of attack power for each of the power point they hold, and it's the battle between quantity and quality.

Eventually, a highly advanced squadron will be able to take on higher and higher power rating ships. That's the real advantage that could turn the tide of a battle, when that battle is even on power rating.




This is only assuming they have enough QP to speed up the attack.  Otherwise the timer is going to be so high that the other side can easily get reinforcements there in time or pull out.
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Dadds
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 08:07:30 PM »

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I don't expect those ships to win against a rough and highly armored enemy many time their size, it's not realistic, but those ships equipped with high tech modules will squeeze every bit of attack power for each of the power point they hold, and it's the battle between quantity and quality.

Yeah ordered right and with the correct balance of vessels, i see where there is a use for interceptor/bomber within the fleet makeup.
JamJul does make a valid point though about timers and ability to pull out of battle. Timers with this sort of fleet combat can take up to a day to resolve. Perhaps we need either to have a "no withdraw" option in combat, or, withdrawing will cost you a pretty penny to do so. Make withdraw the last option of choice. I guess if you were trying to defend your flag or homeworld, then withdraw isnt really an option. Rally is what will be required and then it will be a matter of, "my fleet is better than your fleet" scenario lol

Quote
My best ships can easily survive nuke assaults taking little to no damage.
Hmmmm that sounds almost like we need to test that statement LOL. What i would love is a simulator for testing out loadouts between players or corp members so there is no actual physical cost incurred. I dont feel like spending the millions of sols just showing JamJul where he went wrong with that statement lol

@Astrogalaxy Players: The time is coming soon for all of us to get together on the field of friendly battle to test out our best ships and rethink our builds with what works and what doesnt. Who knows, maybe one day we may all need to coordinate against an alien aggressor lol

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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2013, 12:00:05 AM »

Dadds what it is, is that my ships are getting better and better. If someone had no Combat Tactics, Optimizations or officers, with shields alone my Kraken could take 12 MK 1 nukes and it would be standing. Would take 1 more to piece it and even then it has the armor to get through followed by the large manpower I have on that ship.  I am not saying this to brag. Just something I wanted to point out. Only another top player would be able to make enough nukes to waste on this ship and of course their ship likely won't come out of it in good condition either.  Kraken btw isn't my strongest ship. Well it was when I made it. But since then leviathan has been upgraded and Hydra is being upgraded as we speak.  Hydra will surpass Leviathan.  As I said before, the attack timers on such a battle would take so long that it really wouldn't matter anyways if someone went to attack it unless they speeded up that attack with QP. Not really worth it. Especially in peace time.  Even when we were at war I am not sure it would have been worth it to go after such a ship.  If anyone is interested in the power of my ships I would be happy to PM the ships power to whoever is curious about it provided you asked nicely lol
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 12:02:29 AM by JamJulLison » Report to moderator   Logged
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