Ship Hangars / Carriers update

[SirEmi]

Ships can now dock other ships, provided there is enough hangar space to hold the docking ship.

- Ship->Hangar, new link available on the left menu. It shows the available hangar bay space of the active ships.

- "Hangar bay" module available to be researched in the Science interface. You will need advanced cargo bay knowledge mark I to be able to research it.

- "Can dock in hangar of corp ships", new corporation permission allows docking into corp ships. This permission should be assigned to all corp member ranks that want to dock with the corp ships.

- Hangar interface allows picking up ships from orbit / sys entry / deep space. You can dock a corporation ship at system entry / safe spot or in orbits around planets. "Owned / Corp ships at location" is used for those actions. Use "Call ship(s) to hangar" for owned ships only.

- Ship hangar bay usage depends on:
   -> ship hull size (specified at SOL Shipyard, #mods*25)
   -> total ship cargo bay (either empty or used)
   -> total ship hangar bay (empty or used)
   -> other modules installed on ship that are not cargo / hangar. 100 m3 is added / module installed.

So ship hangar bay size can be reduced by un-installing modules / moving to cargo bay / filling ship cargo bay, un-installing hangar bay modules particularly or docking other ships in hangar bay.

- Docking: A ship that contains other ships in it's hangar bay can still dock other ships. Undocking requires that the mother ship be undocked too. A ship can not undock while the mother ship is still inside another ship's hangar bays. So the mother ship has to be undocked to be able to release the ships inside it.

- Undocking: When docked, a ship will show as docked in hangar in SITREP and Comms->Ships. Undocking can be done from Comms->Ships or from a link next to ship stats / hull class whenever the active ship is viewed.

- Active docked ships: It is possible to have active docked ships. Those ships can not set a nav / system course, but it's possible to issue manufacture tasks, open communication channels, unload mining facilities, trade, etc. In navigation screen, the docked ship will see the mothership location as it is moving.

- Comms->Ships will show how many docked ships each ship contains. Clicking the down / up arrow will reveal the ships inside but only one branch deep. To be able to activate / use the other ships that are further inside other docked ships, some undocking may be required.

- Combat: Docked ships will not participate in combat. If undocked during an attack in progress, ships will automatically join the combat.


For any bugs / problems, please message support.

Godspeed!

[Aysle]

May I suggest on perhaps the Modules view of a ship that it show what the packed size of a ship would be to make it easier to figure out what size hanger bays you need for a ship

[SirEmi]

May I suggest on perhaps the Modules view of a ship that it show what the packed size of a ship would be to make it easier to figure out what size hanger bays you need for a ship

It shows in Hangar->Owned / Corp ships at location at the moment as ship mass, but I'll see if we can add it to modules view too.

[Aysle]

I see it there but if you only have one ship at the location then you can't see the ships size.

Would also be handy when planning to load multiple ships from other players into a corp ship so you can ask the other person how much space they need.

[Dadds]

OK here is my thoughts on the latest update: Practically useless to totally useless at low-levels. Is this a science advancement in the tree or someone got out their oxy-acetylene torch and cut a hole in the side of one of my adv cargo bays! A MK II advanced cargo bay (375m) is much more useful than a MK I hangar(300m). In fact, the only thing you can use a MK I hangar for is the garbage ejection system since it doesnt actually fit any functioning ship at all (unless of course you were in the hull salvage business and didnt actually want to fly any stored ships, just transport their hulls around) Even a scout with the ability to pack its modules into its own cargo bay would need a min Adv Cargo MKV (300cap to put 3 mods in it) so would need 400 space in the hangar (Hangar MK III min)
I would have preferred to see (3) things done differently with this module:

1. In keeping with the science tree tradition of having to strive for an advanced technology, to increase the requirement to start research at say 9 levels of Adv cargo (even 5 would be better than 1) At the moment, the hangar and adv cargo are practically a side-by-side technology, not an advancement on the Adv. cargo bay. At 1st level of Hangar its capacity would start at 900m (or 600m with the 5 class model). That would make the hangar a much better and practical starting module, as well as its capacity % gains per MK upgrade.
2. When doing the total capacity model for packing, use current mass of cargo, not the maximum capacity it can store. As i pointed out in another post, empty cargo modules can be transported for as little as 100m anyway, so why not just add the installed cargo to the equation (+100m) as with all other modules, and then add the ships current cargo mass to it. It will save me from constantly having to pack & unpack cargo bays and possibly forgetting to install my cargo when i kill a nest, and have to watch all those valuable mats drift off into space, cause i was too quick with the OPEN FIRE! button.
and;
3. In keeping with cargo = cargo, mass = mass thoughts, i would have loved for the exercise to see that the hangar mass requirements be calculated as ship hull plus installed modules, which comes out of hangar space, and any cargo within its hold be subtracted from the mother ships cargo space (sort of a shortcut to transferring all the cargo from docking ship into mothership holds before commencing dock)

Thoughts 2 & 3 pretty much has the same math as with the current system, just not as lengthy to achieve the same result, so there is no exploit going on (other than time saving). In the heat of a battle deployment (and lets face it, this is why you have hangars, to carry combat ships quickly into a combat zone) i dont want to have to go through the steps of undocking, unpacking, installing, un-installing other modules to fit, powering up weapon systems or shields and then engage the enemy. Either he would have seen me stumbling around trying to get all my stuff organised and jumped out of system,leaving me tripping over my pants legs as i rush to the bridge to issue the unpack orders OR, the other ship could(if holding spare QP) just use it on me before i am ready for combat and scatter my fleet to the 4 cardinal points of the safe zone.
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Just one pilots view who has been eagerly waiting for this update, only to be let down a little with its grand design (much like finding that santa clause doesnt really exist)

[JamJulLison]

I think the cargo bay should have nothing to do with the hangers at all. They should be considered separate. How often on space shows do you see hanger bays doubling as cargo bays and vice verse? Very rarely since it is impractical and not too useful.  At the moment the only use I even see for these is maybe on space stations or on a planet. But I am not sure if you are even able to do that right now.

[Aysle]

I find the per a Mk upgraded size of only 75m3 is just way to small...

Combining that with the INSANELY over priced $96mil for a mother ship optimization make these new mods pretty off limits to most players. Even a Class 1,2 or 3 ship with a small amount of cargo will require some pretty big Hanger mods. Especially if you want to "swarm" the target.

I would define a swarm as atleast 3-4 ships. And if your dealing with nests then you need the cargo space to actually pickup what you earn so that makes it even more out of reach to most.

I get the whole packed size bigger inside then out "Doctor Who" situation we have... Perhaps our cargo bays are inflatables? But still deflate the empty space when packing .

I can afford to optimize and build a good amount of hanger mods for a carrier or two but I would say all but 5-6 or so players here could make good use of these mods. I think it needs some reworking.

As the most expensive optimization you can buy I would think it would deliver more then it does as of now. That $96mil could easily be spent on Science mods to research high Mk hanger bays (which also gives you new tech opportunities forever) and build them and you would still come out ahead for less $$

I just think its way to expensive for so little reward. If we can fit an entire gas giant of mats into our cargo hold then we should be able to fit a couple of ships with empty cargo bays.

[Aysle]

If we are going to keep the ships size as the max possible size it can be then I would ask for an option on these things....

Kinda like nukes, a deploy / hold option. So that if you are attacked then all ships in your hanger bay are deployed or not based on the setting. Now that would add some REAL fun.  I can just see it now. Some dork attacks your lowly station that has no defense but does have some hanger bays. Then BANG, 6 Class 2 nuke platforms come flying out and just ruin their day -- Perhaps to make it a bit more realistic if a station with hanger bays is attacked the ships don't come out till the counter is done. Because lets be serious, if your packing a serious war fleet why would you pull it out and let the enemy run away when you can pop out and waste them just as they think they are gonna kill you   

Also being able to put Hanger bays on stations/planets would be useful as well.

[SirEmi]

If we are going to keep the ships size as the max possible size it can be then I would ask for an option on these things....

Kinda like nukes, a deploy / hold option. So that if you are attacked then all ships in your hanger bay are deployed or not based on the setting. Now that would add some REAL fun.  I can just see it now. Some dork attacks your lowly station that has no defense but does have some hanger bays. Then BANG, 6 Class 2 nuke platforms come flying out and just ruin their day -- Perhaps to make it a bit more realistic if a station with hanger bays is attacked the ships don't come out till the counter is done. Because lets be serious, if your packing a serious war fleet why would you pull it out and let the enemy run away when you can pop out and waste them just as they think they are gonna kill you   

Also being able to put Hanger bays on stations/planets would be useful as well.

This is a great idea, for now we don't have station hangar, but if we did then yes we would need an auto-deploy alarm / warning in case the station gets attacked. All crew to battlestations and deploy, and hold / deploy setting for ship hangars, but not stations. The station will always auto-deploy on combat, and maybe an option to call / recall ships back if aggression stops / combat is done.

That would make hangars work for stations too.

Also ships that undock from hangar bay and have other ships inside that are set to auto-deploy, will deploy those too.

[Dadds]

I think the cargo bay should have nothing to do with the hangers at all. They should be considered separate. How often on space shows do you see hanger bays doubling as cargo bays and vice verse?

huh!? a hangar IS a cargo bay for ships. Not sure which planet you been living on but it is most definitely storage space, which by definition is where cargo goes.Cargo in this definition is vessels. Only diff between a cargo and a hangar is a hangar is SUPPOSED to be a lot, lot bigger than a cargo hold. Ours, sadly, arent. It even has similar concepts since our cargo bays have an ejection system into space. All you need (other than a lot more space) is some sort of automated guidance/nav & telemetry system to stop any fender benders into the mother ship and a bit hole which opens to outer space (airlocking system). Go take a walk on one of your aircraft carriers over your way JamJul and tell me its not just one big, big cargo hold, with crew lifts, aircraft hoists and a weapons delivery system to strap on the nukes. (oh, as well as a McD where you can supersize your fries, but not your hangars lol)
 

[JamJulLison]

I must be getting confused.  I thought it was said by someone at some point that the hangers end up using up cargo bays.   I really shouldn't try following some of these threads when I am sleepy. lol

[BB Goode]

With all the basic things that have been talked about that need to be done, why so much time being wasted on a high-end toy for only the most elite players? This is how game-worlds end up failing before their time.

Just sayin'...

[SirEmi]

With all the basic things that have been talked about that need to be done, why so much time being wasted on a high-end toy for only the most elite players? This is how game-worlds end up failing before their time.

Just sayin'...

Carrier ability is a high priority because it adds something to aim at, a goal, to have a nice carriers filled with your ships...

Next on the list is space exploration and discovery.

[sargas]

I have been waiting for that (also for corp stations)...

[JamJulLison]

With all the basic things that have been talked about that need to be done, why so much time being wasted on a high-end toy for only the most elite players? This is how game-worlds end up failing before their time.

Just sayin'...

Not even the elites really want to waste the kind of money it cost to optimize a Leviathan class.  Hell all the optimizations on larger ships is overpriced. They are only really worth it on smaller ships. On the bigger ships we can accomplish the same things by building higher MKed mods for a much cheaper price.

Carrier ability is a high priority because it adds something to aim at, a goal, to have a nice carriers filled with your ships...

Next on the list is space exploration and discovery.

I'm sorry Emi but you are wrong.  It is a low priority.  None of us really find it very useful and it could be better implemented. The only reason I will even create a carrier is to say I have one.  I won't bother to build more then that.  It would be a waste of time, energy and resources.