Astro Galaxy - a realistic space exploration game
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Dadds
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2014, 07:10:02 AM »

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I would even be content if they still required you to have enough space in your cargo bay to do it. It would just be a nice time saver yet offers no real advantages.
Yes it does offer real advantage. time saver lol. time is money.
Instead of creating yet another module to make stuff build faster, or create senior officers to increase percentages more, or other wild ideas in how to win a game faster, just ask Sir Emi for a "i win the game card"
Sheesh, all the top players are top players for putting in the time, learning the game, learning how to utilize their time and actions to build and grow as fast or faster than the next person. Why then should it suddenly become easier for others to achieve the same results?

As matamure points toward, the higher our tech levels get, the more of a limiter it puts on us to build it. the science required to get 1 extra mark can be in the millions or tens of millions, and the time factor never alters per mark to build. If you want to invent a "quickie fix" that builds stuff fast, then it becomes available to us top players also, which means we will speed up the widening of the gap from newer players to old. At our levels, money is very unimportant and easy to earn. You dont want a QP fed machine to build a mark M or higher module, or a replicator

We are getting someplace with a science already in place called "Reverse engineering" All that needs to be done is to allow reverse engineering for all modules, not just the illegal ones, with the same restraint on building or reverse engineering 2 modules currently in place.

The other thing that we would hope comes to place is the ability to trade modules on a commodity market, which i suspect is also being reviewed, based on the last game upgrade we received.

If you want to build quick, the third option is join an advanced corp who doesnt mind sharing some of its tech with members, to gain an immediate boost and support to your character.

There is no need to build yet more "gadgets" to do what already is possible. Rapid advances and personal development is simple. Put some time in to the game, meet some senior players and learn from their learning and mistakes.
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Dadds
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2014, 07:33:32 PM »

I agree with most of that but I guess I just have two major points where I disagree a bit.

1. Sure it could make the gap between the newer developing players and the older and well established players even bigger than it is now, but it could also allow for faster development where a smart player could perhaps gain ground faster on those older players. The game itself is still growing and changing so who is to say it couldn't help players out when combined with other future developments that those older players also have to navigate and learn at the same time?

2. There are at least 2,000 people that have registered to play this game... how many of those people actually play again? I think a significant factor with regards to the number of players that started and subsiquently left is how long things take to get done. Now don't get me wrong, I think some things like traveling and what not are more or less fine the way they are. I don't have to even ask for a show of hands as to how many people have said they think combat timers need to be adjusted so things don't take forever. While I don't think it is nearly as bad as combat timers there are times when I think to myself "why did I even bother to research that module to such a high level? I'm never going to make a module that takes that long to build." I think a good part of it would be about balancing, something like this would have to be balanced well lest it be overpowered and highly abusable or be so insignificant (I'm looking at you combat drives) that it might as well not even be in the game.

I have other ideas as to how to make this work, and you yourself Dadds have just given me another idea by pointing out how someone at your level really feels that it isn't necessary at all. I feel like it could seriously help my second point and give us more players to enjoy interacting with but perhaps I should make a poll about build times for new players to express their opinions on the matter before I go putting all my eggs in that basket for this friendly debate lol.
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Dadds
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2014, 03:44:19 PM »

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1. Sure it could make the gap between the newer developing players and the older and well established players even bigger than it is now, but it could also allow for faster development where a smart player could perhaps gain ground faster on those older players. The game itself is still growing and changing so who is to say it couldn't help players out when combined with other future developments that those older players also have to navigate and learn at the same time?

I hate to point out and acknowledge anything that Raphael has done, but if you look at his rise to infamy, he is probably the fastest growth achiever in the game currently. Doesnt make him the best or strongest player by any means, but he has spotted a weakness in the game to exploit to his own benefit to build up a strong power base. So the game already does allow for fast development, if you want to follow the "Raphael model" He puts in a lot of game time, uses the easiest methods and researches the cheapest science to achieve power fast.
I dont recommend it of course, because all you end up with is a bunch of comm mission ships with no imagination and no real benefit vs another player.

To point number 2.

Chances are the reason why most people have left (which includes some of my own corp members) is because, when you do get up in advanced levels, there is very little to do to entertain most people. If you add a peace treaty to that, so there is no PvP intrigue, the game just becomes a bit of a drag. We are still waiting on the upgrades for blackholes etc which has been promised for so long now its no longer funny.  We were conducting supernova experiments while still at war with PMI. That was a very long time ago in game time lol. I am still doing my bit to ensure every system i meet is destabilised for when the big bang is introduced. That concept has been in the game for a very long time and still it hasnt come about. With the resources depleting, even mining is becoming boring and people are finding more interesting ways to spend their times, in other games i suspect.

With ref to building times: I have just started several module builds on my factory ships which wont be complete for over 74hrs. That is the time frame i like to work in. i could have set that to be several days or weeks even, just to build a module. That time doesnt bother me so much, because i have enough ships and modules to go about business while those surplus modules get built. VIP and officers help with the build time, and i fully endorse them as essentials to the game if you want to play for keeps. Reasonably priced also, as you can buy QP from solar.

It is already quite easy to grow fast, if you pick a particular model and stick to it. I chose mining and removed myself from all the politics and issues surrounding Sol early on, and now run a powerful corporation. Finding the right people to be a part of the corp was my secret.
Others choose raiding to get their early break on others.
Some learn how to exploit comm missions early on and build their ships accordingly to maximize profit and minimize cost.
Some go mad on early research and get high tech quickly in certain areas.

All of these models work and achieve results at different levels

And then some just play it safe and run an intra-stellar ferry service and usually get nowhere slowly.
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 11:00:37 AM »

Certainly I can see your point about not having anything to do at the higher levels of modules and research, however I have to wonder how many people quit long before they even get to that point because of how long things take. Now don't get me wrong, I personally like a grind it out kind of game where it takes awhile to get some things done, I find more satisfaction in games like that. I don't personally think the build times are horrible, they are... bearable though I wouldn't call them good either.
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2014, 02:24:41 PM »

It isn't the build times that bother new players.  It is the travel times.  I remember how bad they were in my early days.  Many people lack the patience needed to move ahead in the game.  Many players quit during the Venus step.  Just look at venus and see for youself all the inactives there.  I used to love hitting inactives there because they would still have their diamonds on board and at times drop them.
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2014, 08:39:22 PM »

Hmm, I suppose I could agree with that on some level, I remember wasting my early QP's on speeding up travel time because of how long it was. I guess I mostly just felt like travel times get better as you upgrade your engines, where as module building/upgrading times get progressively longer and longer though at least it's a linear increase in time rather than exponetial. Thank god for that because if build/upgrade times were exponetial that would just be insanely ridiculous.
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2014, 08:44:25 PM »

Nothing is worse then the combat times which get so high it is rediculas. I can forgive the travel and even the build.  I can see realisticly why that stuff may be like it is. But not the battle.
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 09:03:42 PM »

I agree certainly that build times aren't exactly a high priority, the way combat works doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2014, 11:34:12 PM »

Actually Dadds, to thhe point on widening the gap - the way I originally envisioned it was there would be a limit as to the number of modules you could have manufactured fast/cheap. So maybe you can only do one per day or one at a time or something- that limitation is a separate issue though.

Anyway, I think this sort of thing would have very little effect on you guys because even if you make your mk 200 viper module or whatever in even half the time, you're only getting the boost for that one. Yes, you will grow faster for certain just because you get an odd module built faster; but I think you guys already build and grow so fast that this benefit would be relatively miniscule.

On the other hand if you're starting out and you want to expand caargo space faster, then instead of having to wait six hours to build a mk2 cargo module you could make it in the manufacturing module/station for 3hrs  Or if you are low on funds you could make it cheaper but take 12hrs and use the other cash to buy fuel. I think that would make a big difference.

Of course I didn't necessarily envision the bonus to be half but you get the idea.

I obviously agree that the other timers are also very high but I think this is a workable solution for this one. I guess my issue is that if I want to go faster I can put on another engine and there are reasonable limitations/handicaps(fuel) limits on the benefit of doing so. If I have a really high attack timer and high odds, I can take some crew off some lasers or something, lower the odds a bit, and the timer.

But while I can get an engineer(as with navigation), and use QP to speed it up(as with navigation), I can't do anything else to adjust this at all. I would like to be able to do so for at least like 15-20%.

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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2014, 12:14:21 AM »

Perhaps the factory ship optimization should do more then just add extra manufacturing bays. With what it cost perhaps it could also increase the production speed it takes to build modules on it.
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2014, 10:03:24 AM »

That would make sense in a way, though I don't think that would really help newer players like Joolz wants since it would be pretty expensive.
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« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2014, 01:23:31 PM »

It would if they are part of a corperation. The only ones who can usually afford such a huge cost is either a corp with a good income cause of taxes or someone on Mata's level.  PMI has a corp factory ship. While it is usually used by our bigger people.  Our lower ranking people are welcome to use it as well.  BTW low level build times aren't really bad at all. I never had an issue with build times when I was lower ranked.
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2014, 11:10:45 AM »

yeah well i am listening to all your discussions and thoughts, but in reality it wasnt long ago that i was a new player anyway. i think i have just undergone my 2nd Christmas in the game, starting late in a previous year gone by, so i have been playing the game now for just over a year and still recall the pain of trying to build a new character. From my memory of what i found frustrating at first was the long travel times and the lack of income to do anything with the science i was developing.  Also the lack of ship and module space. This was before there were extra types of comm missions and stuff (nests etc) to help out. I grabbed VIP relatively early, as well as officers to shorten all gaming timers. Early on in the game i wasnt even that bothered with building upgrades because the cost of building new vs the +25% per upgrade of extra benefit it gave me, meant it was better for me to build small modules and lots of them, but buy a big ship or 3.
It wasnt until I became a top 20 player that i needed to start looking at upgrading modules to keep my power levels increasing in line with the top players, when ship licenses suddenly became too expensive to justify buying more.
Perhaps because the model i focused on was expansionist and explorer, build times were of no or little consequence for me initially. Once i had my power base it was just a matter then of upgrading modules to keep in touch with my science. By this time, i had plenty to do while waiting for the builds (remember, this is also going back when there were no ship optimizations in game).
Even now at my level, the most limiting factor to building is the module costs, not so much the time it takes to build. Some of my big modules are worth $10's or even $100's of millions to build if i want to build more than one of them, which takes time and organisation to earn (back on combat timers yuk). the build time for me is probably the most bearable because at the end of the day it is only a linear counter.
We at IMG also have a corp factory ship for all to build on. For those who wish to purchase the materials to build a module, we can provide our top scientists to build top modules for them. I guess in this scenario then the limiting factor would be build timers, since all the other hard work has already been accomplished with senior science research, and the income obtained to buy materials.
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Dadds
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2014, 12:28:15 PM »

I hear what you are saying... perhaps a better way to fix some of these issues would be to work it from a different angle. I had another idea as far as helping build times for noobs just starting out but perhaps there would be another way to actually go about that. I will organize my thoughts on that matter and post the idea in a different topic as it isn't really so much about manufacturing as it is about the entire start of the game in general.
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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2014, 12:36:27 PM »

The easiest way for a player to advance quickly is to join an existing developing and established corp at the end of the day. Once they get a "leg up" most corps would be ok with it i guess if they felt they needed to move on to do their own thing as a leader of a corporation. Most would prefer they stay, of course and become a productive member of the team, but that is the risks corp captains take when taking on a new recruit.
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