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Author Topic: COM missions drop over existing COM  (Read 78918 times)
sargas
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« Reply #90 on: February 17, 2015, 09:35:47 PM »

At any rate, Jam and I have agreed on a way to settle this, and from my part, I'll leave it at that.

Would it be considered mean if I were to secretly wish for conflicts like this (or even all-out war) to liven the game up a bit?  1

nope...
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« Reply #91 on: February 17, 2015, 09:36:40 PM »

So there is now no incentive for people to tell you if they accidentally drop a COM on you? Duly noted
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« Reply #92 on: February 17, 2015, 09:39:33 PM »

There used to be but I am tired of this happening.  For all I know people the both of them could have done it on purpose and then apologized to try to get away with doing it.  Though cutting and running first would do it first.  But then no one would know who did it. So they could have done it to be bragging. Or it could have been an accident.  What I am doing now prevents that first possibility from ever happening and there are likely people in the game who might consider doing the first thing. Considering the fact I don't really trust you or most of your people anymore, I have trouble believing what they say. Especially since this is the 2nd time this has happened.   
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« Reply #93 on: February 17, 2015, 09:43:05 PM »

JJ, in case I make that mistake in the future, please forgive me. It will be an accident and I'll try not to do it again.




(...there, the proper apology has been issued...)
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« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2015, 09:45:42 PM »

Could be said you will intentially do it now. Though I know you ment it as a joke. Also the odds of us bumping into each other even to do it are small. lol. So odds of you doing it aren't high, you do try to check your surroundings and should it happen, odds of me running into one of your ships when I am not looking isn't high. Hell I thought I wouldn't see any of torh's ships for months and then eventually forget about the whole thing. lol
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sargas
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« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2015, 11:05:49 PM »

Could be said you will intentially do it now(If you want to read that into my jape, then do so.. Though I know you ment it as a joke. Also the odds of us bumping into each other even to do it are small You have no idea how often I see you. Just because I don't always say hello doesn't mean that I don't see you.... lol. So odds of you doing it aren't high, you do try to check your surroundings and should it happen, odds of me running into one of your ships when I am not looking isn't high. Hell I thought I wouldn't see any of torh's ships for months and then eventually forget about the whole thing. lol
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« Reply #96 on: February 18, 2015, 03:46:31 PM »

I feel like this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion...  Rostin I did say it was the start of a pattern, a start. Now if it doesn't happen again then that pattern is broken and goes no where and it doesn't matter, if it happens again then there is some reason to suspect it might not be coincidence all the time, that is all I meant. While I personally would have handled things differently than Jam is I don't fault him for it considering he is going out of his way to minimize the damage done to whomever drops a COM on him so that he is just sending a message and not taking advantage of this in order to deal some kind of massive blow to your corp or any of it's memebers.

Personally Raptor I can understand your situation. I would guess that the whole "jake" matter has made Jam much less inclined to take you at your word and I can't blame him for that considering how things went down. Trust is easy to lose and quite hard to gain. I will take your word for it, but certainly if it happened again I would think twice before doing so again given what went on. I hope you can understand what I mean.

Btw last I checked there is a lot more to a corp than just it's rankings. I would kindly ask that you refrain from saying that your corp will "surpass us in everyway" in the future Rostin as I take personal offense to that when you don't know what goes on in TGE. You want to pass us on the leaderboard that is fine, but don't go saying or should I say implying that the members of TGE aren't as good as your own corp. I understand things are getting a little heated but still, let us not go insulting people just because of that.

Torh, I guess there wasn't much of a history between you so my bad on that, it just seemed like there was from how Jam talked was all.
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« Reply #97 on: February 18, 2015, 09:05:27 PM »

we need the updated to finish  4 so we can see whom is drop com.
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sargas
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« Reply #98 on: February 18, 2015, 11:08:56 PM »

I'm sorry, but what update will let us see that?
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« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2015, 11:37:48 PM »

I feel like this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion...  Rostin I did say it was the start of a pattern, a start. Now if it doesn't happen again then that pattern is broken and goes no where and it doesn't matter, if it happens again then there is some reason to suspect it might not be coincidence all the time, that is all I meant. While I personally would have handled things differently than Jam is I don't fault him for it considering he is going out of his way to minimize the damage done to whomever drops a COM on him so that he is just sending a message and not taking advantage of this in order to deal some kind of massive blow to your corp or any of it's memebers.

Personally Raptor I can understand your situation. I would guess that the whole "jake" matter has made Jam much less inclined to take you at your word and I can't blame him for that considering how things went down. Trust is easy to lose and quite hard to gain. I will take your word for it, but certainly if it happened again I would think twice before doing so again given what went on. I hope you can understand what I mean.

Btw last I checked there is a lot more to a corp than just it's rankings. I would kindly ask that you refrain from saying that your corp will "surpass us in everyway" in the future Rostin as I take personal offense to that when you don't know what goes on in TGE. You want to pass us on the leaderboard that is fine, but don't go saying or should I say implying that the members of TGE aren't as good as your own corp. I understand things are getting a little heated but still, let us not go insulting people just because of that.

Torh, I guess there wasn't much of a history between you so my bad on that, it just seemed like there was from how Jam talked was all.
Really? Why don't you tell that to your own leader Fenix, because he and Joolz both seem to think that I somehow recruit players of a lesser caliber than TGE does. I didn't say anything about TGE's members; I had said mine were the best because that is how a parent talks about its offspring. When I say "surpass" I mean in terms of total power, membership, tech, and all that. I don't think any player is worse than anyone else. You misunderstand my self-worth for undue criticism. The only people here I criticize are JJL and Joolz, and you have seen the hypocrisy and arrogance that they continue to project
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« Reply #100 on: February 19, 2015, 01:56:11 AM »

we need the updated to finish  4 so we can see whom is drop com.

Better still: an update that lets people do similar but separated COMs at the same spot...
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« Reply #101 on: February 19, 2015, 11:19:41 AM »

that would be nice, especially if we can pick our own 'firing order' (My ship #A can fight enemy ship #3, ship #B- ship#2, ship#D - ship #1, etc)
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« Reply #102 on: February 19, 2015, 11:29:23 AM »

Sorry for the very long post but i wanted to respond to some of the messages posted on the forum since my last responce

Concerning the Torh situation.  I consider that settled now. I jumped his cargo ship yesterday.  This was after the message from Raptor of course. Torh never did offer me a chance to face one of his COM ships though. I never actively sought him out. I happened to run into him where I was doing a COM. I saw his ship and his mines.  I could have destroyed his advanced mines there but I did not. I kept to my word about not destroying any of his mines/stations.  I told him when the incident happened what I would do if I saw one of his ships.  It is probably better for him it was just a mining ship. It will be cheaper to replace the crew on it then it might be had I trashed one of his COM ships. 

good too here this situation is resolved

As for Raptor. He of all people should know better then to drop COMs. Especially on one his corp had an agreement with.  Did I hit him in his early days. I may have. I honestly don't remember. But hell I haven't been doing much in the way of janitor in a long time.  That was also before any sort of agreement was ever made. Fact is he should have watched what he was doing.  I haven't hit him yet though. I won't be actively hunting him either. But If I see a ship of his I can hit, I will hit it.

its very improbable that we have spoken before the only thing i could think of is an incedent on i read on the forum consurning a member of my previous corp (mirage) interfering in the PMI IMG war were you may have contacted me but i was already inactive at the time ( and by the way i got the leadership on an interim and keept it because no one wanted it i didnt actually run the corp) . And before i went on hiatus the only player i remember having regalar contact with and fought with is scion 

It is time people learn to check where they drop their COMs.  Obviously NAPs or any other sort of agreement that says not to drop COMs just isn't going to work. People are still getting COMs dropped on them.  It isn't just me it is happening to. It is happening to other players as well. So perhaps a nice kick in the  butt will work to teach people to watch what their doing.  It sure seems to be working with Torh now.  People may not like my methods but if it gets the proper results then so be it.   

i learned from my mistake and that is not because of you kicking me in the butt i established the procotol after i accidently dropped a com on you  i made them because i was sorry not because i was scared if i was i could have just parked my ships in deep space every evening. and my i say you treatening people doesnt really give them any insentive to agmit there mistakes in the future 

As for the UC.  TGE is officially out of the UC now. I would like to keep my established NAPs in place and use the UC terms as NAP terms.  But I refuse to change my policy now on people laying COMs on me.  If Rostin or one of his cronies wish to come after me for what I am doing then feel free to.  Just leave the rest of my members out of it.  This is a personal policy of mine. Not a TGE policy.  Whether or not the COMs made things harder or not isn't the point at all.  It is the principal of the matter.  It is disrespectful to lay COMs on other people and can possibly interfere with the operations.  Rostin my advice to you is teach your people better.  Ensure they know to look first.   BTW your not the only player that takes in newer players. New players are always welcome in my Corp and we do provide Corp ships for them to use for COMs.  So far I haven't heard from anyone about any of my people laying COMs on others. Of course I do try to educate my people to watch where they are dropping COMs.

how is it disrespectfull to make an honest mistake? And me dropping a com on you is not a failure on rostin part it was a mistake on my part because i failed to check orbit ( a mistake from which i learned regardless of you treats) 
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I think part of the issue that's being missed is that Jam tries to hold himself to a high standard, and that includes holding his corp to a high standard as well. When he agrees they are not to drop coms at TGE, and he tells his guys not to do so, he tries to make sure they understand and will comply. When there's multiple violations of agreements to that effect and they are coming from the same corp that says something about that corp. I'm the same way, so if it were me I'd be wondering why you expect me to let your guys do something I wouldn't tolerate my guys doing and for which I would expect to be retaliated against.

i didnt intend to cause jam any harm i just made a mistake; and as this thread stats i has happen before where people just drop coms be it intentional or un intentional. we atleast had the honesty to inform jam of our mistake we could have just flow away and he would have know someone dropped it on him but have had no idea who i even offered him compensation for it   

Sure, you can make excuses about how they accept so many new guys(Raptor's not very new) so it's inevitable and how we need to just tolerate their handing powerful ships to new guys without giving them proper orientation and training but at the end of the day guys like Jam, (and myself) see Rostin as 'dropping the ball' in this area, compromising the corps standards to achieve his ambitious goals(like giving new guys com ships prematurely).

That said, mistakes happen and that may not be grounds for dissolving a NAP but if it violates that NAP then I see no reason to argue against retaliation to equalize the violation.

There's nothing wrong with giving a new guy a com ship but in my experience it's never wise to do so as a matter of course. Give them one when they're ready be it day one or day 300. When are they ready? When you've given them as much of that orientation/training as they need to avoid such mistakes and they want a com ship.

you cant fault rostin for giving me a  com ship  i was already in the proces of building one for my self so it could  have happen regardless of him giving me that ship maybe only latter 

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quote author=JoolzVern link=topic=8835.msg75074#msg75074 date=1424222189]
And how can you say James holds his corporation to a higher standard when SPQNR is on track to surpass TGE in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF THE GAME IN THE NEAR FUTURE? Gee maybe because he's not willing to have low standards just to be no1 in the numbers like you would.

The propensity for their to be more slip ups from my corp MAY BE because we have almost twice as many members as any other corporation and most of those members have started doing COMsDespite some being inexperienced and or irresponsible players that any decent corp leader would not have on the team or give a big com ship to just to inflate the corp. You are noticing a "trend" from ONE individual (torh) who made a mistake (Marcus should not count because a misclick is different from ignorance of COM etiquette). So really because ONE SPQNR member out of 26 failed to fully understand the mechanics of COM missions on his first day of doing them you now think it is because I am a poor leader/teacher?It was your responsibility, so if you disagree you're simply shirking your responsibility as leader... Get real. The only poor leaders I see in this game are the two of you. The thing is, you say that without anything to support that claim other than your ill-gotten gains in power from accepting anybody and giving them a huge com ship at the expense of everything else like responsibility or respect. That doesn't make you a good leader. I actually have logical factually correct reasons to say you are dropping the ball.

like rostin states above we have almost twice the members wish means we probably have more people doing com also on futher note it seems to me that both incedents took place in the first ring (if i remember correcly mine was at S/107 Piscium A1) wish is because i suspect most people run there coms in that ring  because its close enough to sol where you can trade the modules and resources you gain from these missions which would further increase the likely hood of encountering each other (please correct me if i am wrong) what i like to point out is that with the amount of com's running its probably inevatable thet we run into each other some time 

Are you saying you two have never accidentally dropped a COM on someone before? I highly doubt that. No and if I had, I'd expect retaliation especially if there was a NAP. I wouldn't expect someone to not beat me to a pulp just because I said "oopsie". I don't understand what has happened to you both where the friends I used to have in this game have become the biggest D-Bags. You both are worse than Dadds EVER was
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The whole idea of non-agression is that you sort things out in a civilised manner Joolz. Which is why I offered full compensation for an UNINTENTIONAL mistake. Until you understand that part, don't talk to anyone about standards.

The thing is it isn't about compensation.  It didn't hurt me in the slightest.  It is the principal of the entire matter.  An attack helps to remind people not do it again. Not likely to even be a costly one either.  There are people in the game where the only way they tend to learn is the hard way after all.   That said I am glad you and I are working this out. 
if it didnt hurt you why did you feel the need to hurt us. i didnt need you attacking me to remind me to check orbit  (i forgot because it was my first time i learned and havent made the mistake since)
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You can't compensate someone for a violation of your word intentionally or not. Until you understand that you will think saying 'oopsie' and monetary compensation makes up for a violation. It just doesn't. The whole "sorting things out in a civilized manner" comes before you break the NAP, not after. After a violation you generally have what's known as a war, and you guys are lucky TGE hasn't been so intolerant as to declare all out war.

sorry but we didnt intend to cause harm there for  we offered compensation. personally i think of a violation as doing something with intend ( i am not a legal expert so i dont know how it is defined in law) in this situation i did not intend to cause any harm to anyon (except the pirates in the com) but because i cause harm i offered compensation

Think about it. It's like if somebody accidentally urinated in your cereal(wrong bowl- honest mistake) after promising not to. It's not about the cereal and their offering a new box of cereal doesn't make up for that disrespect and is further insult. So don't be surprised or act like they're unreasonable when somebody rejects your 'compensation' for such an act after you broke a non-aggression pact.
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At any rate, Jam and I have agreed on a way to settle this, and from my part, I'll leave it at that.

Would it be considered mean if I were to secretly wish for conflicts like this (or even all-out war) to liven the game up a bit?  1

nope it makes you honest
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There used to be but I am tired of this happening.  For all I know people the both of them could have done it on purpose and then apologized to try to get away with doing it.  Though cutting and running first would do it first.  But then no one would know who did it. So they could have done it to be bragging. Or it could have been an accident.  What I am doing now prevents that first possibility from ever happening and there are likely people in the game who might consider doing the first thing. Considering the fact I don't really trust you or most of your people anymore, I have trouble believing what they say. Especially since this is the 2nd time this has happened.   

if we did it on purpuse to cause you harm then why did we notify you we could have don it and be halfway to the new cluster ( manner of speaking) and you would have never know who did it. and why would we send you a message to brag wath would be the point of braging to you except to get  a prize on our heads. IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. i dont expect you to trust me but i try to be honest when i make mistakes
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Could be said you will intentially do it now. Though I know you ment it as a joke. Also the odds of us bumping into each other even to do it are small. lol. So odds of you doing it aren't high, you do try to check your surroundings and should it happen, odds of me running into one of your ships when I am not looking isn't high. Hell I thought I wouldn't see any of torh's ships for months and then eventually forget about the whole thing. lol
as i stated in one of my above responses bumping in to one and other is likely more possible then you think.
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I feel like this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion...  Rostin I did say it was the start of a pattern, a start. Now if it doesn't happen again then that pattern is broken and goes no where and it doesn't matter, if it happens again then there is some reason to suspect it might not be coincidence all the time, that is all I meant. While I personally would have handled things differently than Jam is I don't fault him for it considering he is going out of his way to minimize the damage done to whomever drops a COM on him so that he is just sending a message and not taking advantage of this in order to deal some kind of massive blow to your corp or any of it's memebers.

i has certenly been blow out of proportion. sorry to say it but i dont agree has done everything to minimize the damage if he wanted to do that he could have just acceptend the Quantum Points i offered. why does he need to send a message by attacking me i understood very well from his response to my message that i made a huge mistake but its just that a mistake and i thank him that he didnt involve anyone else in this

Personally Raptor I can understand your situation. I would guess that the whole "jake" matter has made Jam much less inclined to take you at your word and I can't blame him for that considering how things went down. Trust is easy to lose and quite hard to gain. I will take your word for it, but certainly if it happened again I would think twice before doing so again given what went on. I hope you can understand what I mean.


Btw last I checked there is a lot more to a corp than just it's rankings. I would kindly ask that you refrain from saying that your corp will "surpass us in everyway" in the future Rostin as I take personal offense to that when you don't know what goes on in TGE. You want to pass us on the leaderboard that is fine, but don't go saying or should I say implying that the members of TGE aren't as good as your own corp. I understand things are getting a little heated but still, let us not go insulting people just because of that.

Torh, I guess there wasn't much of a history between you so my bad on that, it just seemed like there was from how Jam talked was all.

oke  but could you then next time refrain from making the suggestion that i wronged him before cause this caused me to question the truth fullnes of the claim that he was only doing this it to teach me a lesson and caused me to think that he was possibly going to take it further than a single attack
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we need the updated to finish  4 so we can see whom is drop com.

we need an update that just makes that even if i do a com at the same location as other person that the missions dont effect eachother
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« Reply #103 on: February 19, 2015, 12:08:33 PM »

Do not forget that sometimes, us big players (maybe also others) want to do more than one COM at the same place at the same time.
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« Reply #104 on: February 19, 2015, 06:17:32 PM »

I try to do multiple COM's at the same location at the same time whenever possible.

I have found that the timers on a COM, then COM mission takes longer than if I attack them both at the same time.

My biggest (so far) has been 3 nests and 2 hijackings in the same two attacks. I beat the hijackers and then a couple of looooooong hours later beat the nests.
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